My 1940 K98 is full of gouges, scratches, small chunks of wood missing, it has the letter "D" carved forward of the butt plate and an "X" right beside it. Who knows what it means, clearly it's been to hell and back though. The original insignia stamped on the receiver combined with all the battle wounds on it make it cooler (IMO) than a similar rifle in mint condition. Man, if this thing could tell stories...
How battle scarred is your milsurp?
- Thread starter metalslug
- Start date
A few of mine look like they have stories to tell. One of my SVT's is covered with repairs to the stock, and if my 1916 Lithgow could talk... It's not in bad shape but there's enough dings and nicks on the original wood that it must've done something in it's lifetime. The K31 looks like a beaver chewed on the butt, but I hear that's from fashionable Swiss boots.
Take a good, long look at MAMABEAR's Model 41 Carcano.
I have a Carcano Carbine that came out of Yugoslavia somehow. Looks positively WRECKED, but it still shoots.
Also have a National Rifle Factory SMLE which has made it through 2 major wars without being FTR'd. Looks pretty bad, still shoots an inch at 100.
Also have a Gew 98 (Mauser 1915/1920) and a "No-name, no-date" (Mauser) that came out of the von Seeckt secret program. Both have been, I think, to Poland and are truly ugly but both still are good shooters.
It is really amazing just how much abuse some of these old things have taken..... and still they are ready for more.
I have a Carcano Carbine that came out of Yugoslavia somehow. Looks positively WRECKED, but it still shoots.
Also have a National Rifle Factory SMLE which has made it through 2 major wars without being FTR'd. Looks pretty bad, still shoots an inch at 100.
Also have a Gew 98 (Mauser 1915/1920) and a "No-name, no-date" (Mauser) that came out of the von Seeckt secret program. Both have been, I think, to Poland and are truly ugly but both still are good shooters.
It is really amazing just how much abuse some of these old things have taken..... and still they are ready for more.
I have three well beaten rifles that have been used extensively under harsh conditions. One is an M91/30 sniper with no blue left on it above the wood. Every single visible bit of wood is scratched and dinged. No cracks or chips. It is extremely accurate and yes, it wears its scope. The bore is close to perfect and the chamber area bears the number of the scope and bracket. Funny thing is, the scope and bracket were replacements post war and don't match the finish of the rest of the rifle.
I also have an Israeli 7.62 conversion 98K. It is in a laminated stock and is in similar condition to the Mosin. It doesn't care if you feed it 7.62x51 or 308Win, it shoots both well in just about any bullet weight.
Another rifle that looks like it saw some harsh extremes is a Carcano carbine in 8x57 with Middle East numerals and letters painted on the butt. The bore is perfect and the blue is about 75% over all. It shoots well but it isn't a pleasant experience. The muzzle blast with milsurp ammo is like having fireworks blasting at the tip of the muzzle. Groups well though and requires special chargers to feed the ammo. This one is Terni made and marked for the S patrone bullet.
I also have an Israeli 7.62 conversion 98K. It is in a laminated stock and is in similar condition to the Mosin. It doesn't care if you feed it 7.62x51 or 308Win, it shoots both well in just about any bullet weight.
Another rifle that looks like it saw some harsh extremes is a Carcano carbine in 8x57 with Middle East numerals and letters painted on the butt. The bore is perfect and the blue is about 75% over all. It shoots well but it isn't a pleasant experience. The muzzle blast with milsurp ammo is like having fireworks blasting at the tip of the muzzle. Groups well though and requires special chargers to feed the ammo. This one is Terni made and marked for the S patrone bullet.
I have an SVT-40, finn capture, stock is full of old gouges, some look like shrapnel hits. It also has very old stylized cyrillic initials carved on the side of the buttstock. After all these battle scars and personalization, the stock still bears original serial # plus all the cartouches...
- Location
- Beaverlodge, Alberta
Dimon, I would love to see that one!
I have a few that have been well travelled but none that appear to have seen really rough use. The '42 Longbranch is probably my own most salty looking piece, but it looks like it never left the boat compared to Mamabear's M41.
I have a few that have been well travelled but none that appear to have seen really rough use. The '42 Longbranch is probably my own most salty looking piece, but it looks like it never left the boat compared to Mamabear's M41.
I find it funny how some folks tend to think every beat up and abused rifle is a "combat vet".
If the rifles could talk it might turn out some interesting stories come from those in mint condition as well. But since they can't talk, and unless there's tracable provenance, typically collectors can only rate the firearm on condition and therefore those beat and abused examples are logically less desirable and less valuable.
Hard to say if that wear is from on the battlefield or use on someones farm, but I think we like to imagine the prior.
-Steve
If the rifles could talk it might turn out some interesting stories come from those in mint condition as well. But since they can't talk, and unless there's tracable provenance, typically collectors can only rate the firearm on condition and therefore those beat and abused examples are logically less desirable and less valuable.
Hard to say if that wear is from on the battlefield or use on someones farm, but I think we like to imagine the prior.
-Steve
I by no means think my '34 Tula 91/30 or my '43 Tula SVT-40 are "combat vets".
However, given the manufacture dates, my milsurps were definitely issued and saw "action" of some kind or other.
Both stocks have their fair share of dings and scrapes but how many of these are action related vs refurb related... no one can tell.
I did see a B&W pic on FB showing a pile of 91/30s unceremoniously piled on top of each other so we know that the refurb process was hard on stocks.
That my 2 cents...
However, given the manufacture dates, my milsurps were definitely issued and saw "action" of some kind or other.
Both stocks have their fair share of dings and scrapes but how many of these are action related vs refurb related... no one can tell.
I did see a B&W pic on FB showing a pile of 91/30s unceremoniously piled on top of each other so we know that the refurb process was hard on stocks.
That my 2 cents...
I not only know the date that my 1897 ZAR Contract 7x57 Mauser carbine was last used in anger [10 May 1901], I know the place [Korannafontein RSA], and the name of the man who used it [Piet Huijsen]. I know where he surrendered it [the Jaeger farmhouse porch], and to whom, as well [Pieter de Jaeger].
It's the only war relic firearm that I now own, since all my collection of WW1 and 2 handguns has been taken away from me.
tac
It's the only war relic firearm that I now own, since all my collection of WW1 and 2 handguns has been taken away from me.
tac
my first mosin was one of west rifles' unrefurb'd $100 specials.
around the stock, right where someone would hold it, the wood is much, much darker, in the shape of a hand. no sure what would have caused it, but still neat to see.
around the stock, right where someone would hold it, the wood is much, much darker, in the shape of a hand. no sure what would have caused it, but still neat to see.
I remember a similar thread on one of the US forums a few yrs ago. The fellow that started it kept insisting that he found some of the dried scalp and hair of a Chinese soldier embedded between the buttplate and the stock of his Garand - a certain indicator of combat use in Korea.. The most exotic things that I have found inside the butt traps of my rifles were some old cleaning patches, a complete cleaning kit for a M1917 Enfield and a paper with a soldier's zeroing data for his M1903 Springfield.
One thing is for sure, field use of a rifle, whether in training or combat, leaves them pretty beat up with metal finish worn/rusted/scratched and stocks gouged, scratched and/or split from going to ground, laying the piece on rocks/ground, exposure to rain, failure to clean bores after firing corrosive primed ammo and entering/exiting vehicles. I recall several instances of FNs having barrels bent because guys drove over them. Quite often you will find some pitting below the stock due to the metal being in prolonged contact with wet wood. That's why most rifles that were recovered from hard use in the field got an arsenal overhaul.
Stocks were the easiest thing for a soldier to #### with to personalize his rifle with initials, mom/wife/GF names, names of hometowns and places carved into them to help while away the hours. Altho this was strictly verboten troops persisted in doing it (what else could they do to you after putting you on the front line?). I've seen pics of Garand stocks with this kind of graffiti added and there is a Boer War Enfield bringback in the Kelowna military museum with a well adorned stock.
The most exotic things that I have found inside the butt traps of my rifles were some old cleaning patches, a complete cleaning kit for a M1917 Enfield and a paper with a soldier's zeroing data for his M1903 Springfield.One thing is for sure, field use of a rifle, whether in training or combat, leaves them pretty beat up with metal finish worn/rusted/scratched and stocks gouged, scratched and/or split from going to ground, laying the piece on rocks/ground, exposure to rain, failure to clean bores after firing corrosive primed ammo and entering/exiting vehicles. I recall several instances of FNs having barrels bent because guys drove over them. Quite often you will find some pitting below the stock due to the metal being in prolonged contact with wet wood. That's why most rifles that were recovered from hard use in the field got an arsenal overhaul.
Stocks were the easiest thing for a soldier to #### with to personalize his rifle with initials, mom/wife/GF names, names of hometowns and places carved into them to help while away the hours. Altho this was strictly verboten troops persisted in doing it (what else could they do to you after putting you on the front line?). I've seen pics of Garand stocks with this kind of graffiti added and there is a Boer War Enfield bringback in the Kelowna military museum with a well adorned stock.
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