How close are we to mandatory copper hunting bullets?

Bigfoot 870

Bigfoot 870

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Lead free / non toxic shotgun pellets, for migratory bird hunting, became mandatory on a federal level. When will lead / lead core bullets be nixed, for hunting, and will it done be on a provincial level, to match the current law set? Migratory bird hunting aside, personally, I don't think that hunting is putting enough lead into game habitat to be a problem. Please note that this post is not intended to create a debate on how a given bullet performs on game.
 
The argument at the time, as I recall, was that wildfowl hunting essentially takes place in the same spots every year. A duck blind would therefore have a fair bit of lead shot building up in the shallows surrounding it, which the birds would pick up in feeding.

Right or wrong on that, no other form of hunting has such limited locations, with the potential for localized buildup of lead. Moreover, gophers, rabbits, deer and moose don't ingest bullets the way birds do shot. Upland birds would pick up shot, but without concentrated beds of it, they are in little danger of lead poisoning.

No doubt somebody who thinks Bambi was a documentary may try, but the argument just isn't there. Low chance, in other words.
 
ATOM said:
The argument at the time, as I recall, was that wildfowl hunting essentially takes place in the same spots every year. A duck blind would therefore have a fair bit of lead shot building up in the shallows surrounding it, which the birds would pick up in feeding.

Right or wrong on that, no other form of hunting has such limited locations, with the potential for localized buildup of lead. Moreover, gophers, rabbits, deer and moose don't ingest bullets the way birds do shot. Upland birds would pick up shot, but without concentrated beds of it, they are in little danger of lead poisoning.

No doubt somebody who thinks Bambi was a documentary may try, but the argument just isn't there. Low chance, in other words.
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The problem is you thought about that logically, the government is anti-logic.
 
ATOM said:
The argument at the time, as I recall, was that wildfowl hunting essentially takes place in the same spots every year. A duck blind would therefore have a fair bit of lead shot building up in the shallows surrounding it, which the birds would pick up in feeding.

Right or wrong on that, no other form of hunting has such limited locations, with the potential for localized buildup of lead. Moreover, gophers, rabbits, deer and moose don't ingest bullets the way birds do shot. Upland birds would pick up shot, but without concentrated beds of it, they are in little danger of lead poisoning.

No doubt somebody who thinks Bambi was a documentary may try, but the argument just isn't there. Low chance, in other words.
Click to expand...

That said, isn't it a bit surprising that a U.S. state is "spearheading" rifle lead as a real issue? Unfortunately, I'm thinking that propaganda could sway decision makers, here in Canada. Also, after all, if it gets done in the U.S., won't Canada simply follow? (Normally, it's Canada that errs on the side of caution, more so than the U.S.......)

http://www.huntingwithnonlead.org/
 
California started the non-lead hunting projectile because the brainless state legislators, and their even more lightly intellectually burdened staffers thought that by doing so, they could end run hunting by supposedly making it impossible to buy ammo. Except, they did not know that several bullet manufacturers were making non-lead monoliths, and the California law just spurred even more, better bullet development.

The fairy tale used to justify this was a dishonest study claiming that the California condor was getting lead poisoning from gut piles. Since the California Condor is on the endangered list, the pretense that lead core bullets in gut piles was a threat to them created an irresistible clamour to end the use of lead core bullets.

Similar B.S. floats around several states, with the hysteria suggesting different raptors may be at risk, or in one case, that children eating wild game harvested by gunfire may be at risk! Since we now know that even the study suggesting that waterfowl were being harmed by lead shot ingestion was flawed, probably intentionally, we can expect similar "science" in the hands of anti-hunting natural resource managers to rear its ugly head in Canada as well.
 
In the real world not in our life time at least mine thanks to the NRA
In the province we live in with the stupid people we live with along with the idiots that make up the so called hunting support groups pushing this probally in the next 7 years and it will not stop with hunting but a total ban so kiss the range and club shooting good bye also

Such small players here who are mainly one box a year users who have no idea of the effect it will have on our sports nor do they care. Like one guy said I will just use my bow if they take the lead Oh Boy
Save an eagle, an eagle that doesn't need help and is at the highest numbers ever in the province
For the kids LOL some of the guys that are pushing it should have not been allowed to breed and they have more worries than eating lead. Not to mention how many kids today will even eat wild game in NS mine won't eat meat period .

When are we going to stop buring millions and millions of tons of coal here for power generation which puts out more lead in one day than every hunter in a year in NS or stop buring the leaded fuel in the piston engine planes.

The effects of Lead bullets here is like pissing in the ocean especially when we are surrounded by other huge sources and nothing being done

But that is not where eagles ingest any. No they don't eat fish, drink water or need air to live
It all comes from that one 130g bullet left in a gut pile from the 25% of hunters that get a deer and are now like 30% of total hunters compared to 25 years ago. How did the eagles make it when we had 100,000 big game hunters with double the deer being Taken vs today. Think about that one
Hunting and shooting is dying out here fast enough the impact from a lead ban will be the straw that kills us and we will never be able to recover
Too bad stupid is not painful
 
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tactical870 said:
Stop talking about it. We are our own worst enemy here
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Way to late for that. Been published in two of the nsfah monthly letters, in the local papers and in many many sessions including government by the tree huggers
So what do you suggest we just bury our heads in the sand while it is happening around us.
Should that be the approach of gun owners as you suggest and take it up ass as usual.
No by talking about it on the other forum, stopping support for the nsfah etc we at least had the nsfah rewind and change their tune and back off some saying now it is a voluntary decision but we know we have a battle coming for sure in the upcoming years and fighting our own which is sad


NSFAH Position on Lead Ammunition

At the September 2012 meeting of the Board of Directors of NSFAH, the Halifax Wildlife Federation tabled a motion asking the Federation to take a leadership role in convincing the hunting community to switch to non-lead ammunition because of the health risks to wildlife and humans posed by lead.

The Board discussed the motion at length. There was concern expressed that the Government might legislate a change to non-lead ammunition, an outcome that nobody wants. There was some skepticism about the scientific data and conclusions. There was reference to other scientific studies that lead to different conclusions. Everyone agrees that lead is a poison that has been removed from paint and gasoline and is treated as a hazardous material in industry. If it presents a risk which can be easily avoided why take the chance?

In the end the Board passed the motion and directed the Federation to launch an information and education campaign to convince hunters that, given the potential risk factors, switching to non-lead ammunition is a prudent decision. It was agreed that the decision must be a voluntary decision on the part of the hunter and the role of the Federation is to present the information that will convince the hunter to reach a non-lead decision.

At that time there was concern expressed with the para phrasing “Information and Education campaign leading to the elimination of lead ammunition”
implied that the Federation supported a ban on lead through legislation. That misinterpretation (or intentional misrepresentation) seems to persist in some areas.
Nothing could be further from the truth. The Federation has always supported hunters’ rights, witness our long and hard fight against Firearms Registration. The Federation believes that the choice of ammunition is an individual right. Our motion and campaign is aimed at providing hunters with the information they need to make an informed decision.

If it had been our intention to seek legislation banning lead we would have introduced this idea through a Resolution at our AGM. If passed it would have become Federation Policy and under our by-laws would require that we present the problem to Government seeking a solution through legislation. We did not want to involve Government, we did not want legislation, and that is why it was introduced as a motion at a Directors meeting.

The bottom line is that the vast majority of our Directors believed that the Federation should take a leadership role on this issue and get out in front of it before it became an issue for Government. We believe that our role is to provide the information hunters need to make an informed decision
Wilf Woods
President
NSFAH
 
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Nsfah are dickwads.

IIRC the issue was that there was a slim chance the ducks might ingest shot thinking they were stones (gizzerd). I think there might gave been a couple ducks found with lead poisoning.

No chance of other wild life infesting it.
 
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Thanks for your post, 3macs1, I had no idea such a plan was afoot in my own province. In my view, the NSFAH have given their blessing in advance, if the government decides to impose a law. This makes no sense to me, at all.
 
Bigfoot 870 said:
Thanks for your post, 3macs1, I had no idea such a plan was afoot in my own province. In my view, the NSFAH have given their blessing in advance, if the government decides to impose a law. This makes no sense to me, at all.
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I will send you the original position when I find it plus they had a section placed in the 2012 or 13 I cannot remember hunting regs
Doing some back peddling now since they pissed off a lot of hunters and shooters and didnot think of the impact since we all know it would spread to all lead including shotgun thus close every range and club here
Google it on the NS hunting forum and you will see some of the battles we had
Actually one of the main reasons I no longer participate there. Sorry but I cannot hang with tree huggers that say they are hunters
Cheers
 
tactical870 said:
Stop talking about it. We are our own worst enemy here
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I hear you, t870, but where else do we talk about such things? It looks to me like bringing up issues on CGN is a good thing.......I.e. RCMP reclassification of a given rifle: I would never have heard of it anywhere else, and would have never wrote to my MP, to voice my concern. I've never written to my MP before, but things I see discussed on this site have raised my awareness, and now I know that hoping doesn't help, but acting, especially in numbers, certainly can.
 
3macs1 said:
I will send you the original position when I find it plus they had a section placed in the 2012 or 13 I cannot remember hunting regs
Doing some back peddling now since they pissed off a lot of hunters and shooters and didnot think of the impact since we all know it would spread to all lead including shotgun thus close every range and club here
Google it on the NS hunting forum and you will see some of the battles we had
Actually one of the main reasons I no longer participate there. Sorry but I cannot hang with tree huggers that say they are hunters
Cheers
Click to expand...

I agree with you 1000%, 3macs1. I was a member for one year, about 25 years ago. Keep me posted, as I'll certainly add my name (and I'm sure many of my friend's names.....guys who have no idea about this) to any petition that stands for maintaining standard rifle ammo.
 
3macs1 said:
Way to late for that. Been published in two of the nsfah monthly letters, in the local papers and in many many sessions including government by the tree huggers
So what do you suggest we just bury our heads in the sand while it is happening around us.
Should that be the approach of gun owners as you suggest and take it up ass as usual.
No by talking about it on the other forum, stopping support for the nsfah etc we at least had the nsfah rewind and change their tune and back off some saying now it is a voluntary decision but we know we have a battle coming for sure in the upcoming years and fighting our own which is sad


NSFAH Position on Lead Ammunition

At the September 2012 meeting of the Board of Directors of NSFAH, the Halifax Wildlife Federation tabled a motion asking the Federation to take a leadership role in convincing the hunting community to switch to non-lead ammunition because of the health risks to wildlife and humans posed by lead.

The Board discussed the motion at length. There was concern expressed that the Government might legislate a change to non-lead ammunition, an outcome that nobody wants. There was some skepticism about the scientific data and conclusions. There was reference to other scientific studies that lead to different conclusions. Everyone agrees that lead is a poison that has been removed from paint and gasoline and is treated as a hazardous material in industry. If it presents a risk which can be easily avoided why take the chance?

In the end the Board passed the motion and directed the Federation to launch an information and education campaign to convince hunters that, given the potential risk factors, switching to non-lead ammunition is a prudent decision. It was agreed that the decision must be a voluntary decision on the part of the hunter and the role of the Federation is to present the information that will convince the hunter to reach a non-lead decision.

At that time there was concern expressed with the para phrasing “Information and Education campaign leading to the elimination of lead ammunition”
implied that the Federation supported a ban on lead through legislation. That misinterpretation (or intentional misrepresentation) seems to persist in some areas.
Nothing could be further from the truth. The Federation has always supported hunters’ rights, witness our long and hard fight against Firearms Registration. The Federation believes that the choice of ammunition is an individual right. Our motion and campaign is aimed at providing hunters with the information they need to make an informed decision.

If it had been our intention to seek legislation banning lead we would have introduced this idea through a Resolution at our AGM. If passed it would have become Federation Policy and under our by-laws would require that we present the problem to Government seeking a solution through legislation. We did not want to involve Government, we did not want legislation, and that is why it was introduced as a motion at a Directors meeting.

The bottom line is that the vast majority of our Directors believed that the Federation should take a leadership role on this issue and get out in front of it before it became an issue for Government. We believe that our role is to provide the information hunters need to make an informed decision
Wilf Woods
President
NSFAH
Click to expand...


Their position is absurd, you can't use FMJ to hunt and what is a lead free bullet? Just a FMJ by another name IMHO.
 
The writing is on the wall here and expect them to push it in the next couple years.


I had little use for the NSFAH before and absolutely no use now. Buncha throw us under the bus, appeaser types.


N.S. is in a bad position, very little crown land, deeply ingrained fudd mentality, a very socialist government (regardless of which party is in power). Expect to see more topics like this pushing the envelope.

I agree with ya 3 Macs, when they stop burning coal, then they can tell us what to do but then again, we are the little people and NSP/ Emera owns this place.


Edit- thousandth post! Good topic to use it on.
 
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