How Cocerned are You over Outfitters/Guides

sealhunter

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How concerned are you guys about outfiters and guides when you are out hunting.

For example,...if a 100km lake had say two outfitters, one on the west shore and one on the East, would you be concerned about hunting the Nort and South Shores?

Have you ever had any run ins? I have only ever had one, ... and it was resolved with a few choice words and parting ways,..

I am really not accustomed to all the outfitters that are running operations in this province (SK), and really don't know the proper, hunter etiquette for this type stuff...

Any advice...

My only other run in was when I had an outfitter tell me that I was not allowed to hunt a certain area because he guides there...
it was crown land, and I simply told him to call so and that I would be continuing to hunt there.

Thanks
 
For example,...if a 100km lake had say two outfitters, one on the west shore and one on the East, would you be concerned about hunting the Nort and South Shores?

No. I would also hunt the East and West shores as well.

Guides have the rights to GUIDE in an area. They don't possess the ownership of the animals in their areas. They also do not possess the right to restrict access to resident hunters.

Here in BC this is a sore subject as the guides are pushing for higher and higher quotas while lobbying for the resident harvest to be lowered. I personally would never let a guide stand between me and an area I wanted to hunt and have had a few "discussions" in the past with guides who think they own crown land.
 
On a lake that big, there is plenty of room for everyone. What exactly are you "concerned" about? Safety? Conflict?

I have no real issue with guides unless they start getting possessive about hunting areas, then they are likely to get an earful and reported the local F&W officer and the guide outfitters association.

I do get a little PO'd when the guide in a region concentrates all effort to one area. I have been hunting an area of the foothills that used to have a really good population of mule deer, but over the last four years it has gone to crap. In discussions with a local landowner he informed me that the guide has 35 tags each year for the management unit, but has been hunting mostly in the valley I do because they have a bed and breakfast in the valley that they do business with.

The first year I hunted there, I routinely saw 10 - 15 muley bucks each day. Last year I saw one mature 3 point and 2 small bucks in the entire valley, less every year. I can not imagine that they will continue to hunt there, and hope they move on soon. The guide must not have any elk tags because I still see lots of elk, and moose, and WT.
 
They have no authority to exclude you from approved crown land. If the area is restricted it will be noted so in the annual hunting synopsis put out by the provincial gov. Hunting and fishing tenures often cover the majority of crown land we use, so to restrict access would be difficult at best, and politically inflamatory.

Having said that, there is certain etiquette whether it comes to guides or any other hunters (whether hunting or fishing).

1. Don't tailgate them into the backcountry (i.e. follow them to find thier spots).
2. If you encounter a guided group at close range, after perhaps letting your presence be known for safety, move off. That guide is making his or her living after all, and it is tough to sell the experience and value when you are inundated by locals.
3. It should be obvious, but don't camp or set up your stand or hide near an outfitters base or hide (or anyone elses unless it is a known group camp site).

If the guide choses to work a well known and high traffic plot or waterway, they have chosen to put themselves in that situation. Some still do when taking out beginners or unfit folks who can't hike the backcountry, but they know what they are in for. If too many local tenures are affecting the overall sustainability, and forcing everyone into poor terrain, you and your local club should bring it up to government.

I would suggest whenever possible, make friends with the guide, and it may go a lot further to advancing your knowledge of the local hot spots. I have a couple of close friends who own and operate a fishing business. I have had the priveledge of being introduced to some of thier absolutely best spots, that are known by few. They know full well they cannot keep others off thier river routes (and certainly not the lakes), but they also know how to plan to avoid the seasonal rushes in each area, search deep to find the remote less travelled areas, and hide thier trailheads well. If they are sloppy, and the word gets out, they have no one to blame but themselves.

They also make a point of not advertising thier presence. By approaching someone and telling them that they are on a tenure, or by driving a truck flashed with logos, they are just telling every local punter that they are near a hot spot and that story and location is going to get out.


Many areas have poor relations between guiding operations and the locals. The locals don't appreciate the hunting "Tourists" taking thier trophies with higher and higher tag allowances, and the guides are frustrated with local "recreational" hunters who don't appreciate that they are trying to feed thier families often on the sole income from guiding. The government is relcutant to restrict lant for either side, so we have to repectful and put ourselves in the other persons shoes.

If you have multiple run-ins with a guide, and you honestly think you are being reasonably courteous, I would suggest you call him up and have a friendly chat one day to discuss each others POV. It simply can't be done in the field when he is with a client. By showing more respect than the rest of the public, and hearing him or her out, you will likely earn some points with them. If you are lucky you may also make a valuable ally and a hunting buddy in the end. If nothing good comes of it at least you have taken the moral high road, and should feel absolutley no obligation.
 
I am really not accustomed to all the outfitters that are running operations in this province (SK), and really don't know the proper, hunter etiquette for this type stuff...

Afford them the same courtesy and consideration that you would any other hunter and there should be no issues.
 
I have not had good experiences with guides.

The first was some clown near Newbrook,AB, that tried chasing me off my buddy's property. This jackass had snuck across the fence from the Crown land and set up several treestands on my buddy's place. His clients seemed a bit shocked when we chased them off the property.

Another bad experience was a guy running clients on a horse train, south of Kananaskis, who tried telling me he had the rights to a particular basin. Quite rude and aggressive when he insisted we could not go up the mountain into his area. He was really disgruntled the next day when we came back down with a ram.

Only met 2 guides and both experiences were bad.
 
The Ontario MNR has set restrictions on certain areas/lakes/roads in the north, to allow Outfitters exclusive access.

While I have no problem with a guy guiding and outfitting to make a living, I don't think they should have sole rights to hunting areas. Make them work at it like the rest of us...
 
The Ontario MNR has set restrictions on certain areas/lakes/roads in the north, to allow Outfitters exclusive access.

While I have no problem with a guy guiding and outfitting to make a living, I don't think they should have sole rights to hunting areas. Make them work at it like the rest of us...

+1...:agree:
 
At least in BC, you better be far more concerned about the native hunting.
A lawyer who often represents natives, spoke at the recent annual meeting of the BC Wildlife Federation. His bottom line was that the future of hunting for non natives did not look good.
 
Afford them the same courtesy and consideration that you would any other hunter and there should be no issues.

Ya ........................
When I meet a courteous guide who treats locals with consideration I will offer him or her the same courtesy. The problem is that in over 30 years of hunting here in BC I have run into over a dozen different guides in the field and to tell the truth only one has been reasonable. That one by the way was thankful as he we had stopped his clients from shooting a grizzly bear - for which they had no tag - when their guide had headed back to town for more supplies.



The Ontario MNR has set restrictions on certain areas/lakes/roads in the north, to allow Outfitters exclusive access.

And that in a nutshell is what we are trying to avoid here in BC.

There is NO reason why anyone should have sole access to public land so they can make a profit. It is nothing more than corporate welfare for a select few.
 
Can waterways, like rivers and lakes, be owned, if not enclosed by your own land.

For example, hmmm, "Flying Shot Lake"

On Crown land, 20 miles long.

I open Flying Shot Outfitters in one of the bays of the lake.

I cannot linit access by others can I?

As you can see, my knowledge and experience in co existing with guide and outfitters, leave a bit to be desired'.
I am really trying to plan a good trip and want to make sure that I'm fairly in the know.
 
Can waterways, like rivers and lakes, be owned, if not enclosed by your own land.

For example, hmmm, "Flying Shot Lake"

On Crown land, 20 miles long.

I open Flying Shot Outfitters in one of the bays of the lake.

I cannot linit access by others can I?

As you can see, my knowledge and experience in co existing with guide and outfitters, leave a bit to be desired'.
I am really trying to plan a good trip and want to make sure that I'm fairly in the know.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but after a body of water becomes a certain size, it is federal property and a navigable waterway, which means you can own private land around it but still can't keep people off the shore up to the high water mark.
Here in Manitoba, outfitters get allocated areas, but it means other outfitters can't operate in that area. There is no restriction for resident,Non-res canadian or native/metis on that allocation.
Hunting private land is another matter altogether.
 
The local guide is a lodge owner, and 1 of 3 local trappers for the area. I know him well, he's a great guy and works with the local bush community in anyway he can. We've had issues, but nothing that has'nt been solved with a beer and a hand shake.
 
had a runin last duck season with a guid from st.albert who had us move off "his" turf but was nice enought o set up up in another of "his fields" and give us some layout blinds and decoys and then bring us back to his base camp for breakfast. over all not bad but still sucked havin to move.
 
No. I would also hunt the East and West shores as well.

Guides have the rights to GUIDE in an area. They don't possess the ownership of the animals in their areas. They also do not possess the right to restrict access to resident hunters.

Here in BC this is a sore subject as the guides are pushing for higher and higher quotas while lobbying for the resident harvest to be lowered. I personally would never let a guide stand between me and an area I wanted to hunt and have had a few "discussions" in the past with guides who think they own crown land.


Fu**in Eh!!

Love when I hear stories about regular folk telling oufitters where the bus stop is. FS
 
At least in BC, you better be far more concerned about the native hunting.
A lawyer who often represents natives, spoke at the recent annual meeting of the BC Wildlife Federation. His bottom line was that the future of hunting for non natives did not look good.

I came away from the convention wondering what was the point of the BCWF and fish and game clubs in general spending time and money on conservation projects. The current government in particular has banned hunting on major portions of the coast and is in the process of giving exclusive hunting rights for the whole province, to the natives. Combine that with the Haidas (Queen Charlotte Is) campaigning to ban all bear hunting, one is left with the question of what is the point of protecting resources that we cannot use.

cheers mooncoon
 
had a runin last duck season with a guid from st.albert who had us move off "his" turf but was nice enought o set up up in another of "his fields" and give us some layout blinds and decoys and then bring us back to his base camp for breakfast. over all not bad but still sucked havin to move.


Did you have permission to be there? If so, you got there first and shouldn't have to move.

If you didn't have permission then he was REALLY nice to you.
 
had a new outfitter show up in the area we hunted bear in for years...he pulled some nasty chit...sprayin our baits an then settin up close by...don't think his hunters did very well...wasn't back the next year.
the folks that had that area before and after were real good.They knew we'd been huntin there for years and we coexisted nicely.
It's a matter of mutual respect...
 
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