How do you choose a musket?

[BCRider]

Locally I've chatted out on the trail with guys that are shooting Indian made smoothbores. They all talked about various things that needed to be done to tune them up and shoot either more accurately or fire off more reliably. So I'd have to say that while they CAN be made to shoot well, both for accuracy and consistency of ignition, expect some tinkering to get there.

A couple of them hardly had to do anything other than drill out the flash hole. Others had to get into case hardening the frizzen and tuning the lock for better operation. So it's probably fair to call them "variable".

There's tricks the smooth bore guys do too. Like if a barrel is too straight it will tend to shoot with some random sorts of spin on the ball. But if a SLIGHT curve is introduced to the barrel through tensioning from the stock or literally bending it then any spin on the ball will tend to be far more consistent and predictable as a result.... And yes, my eyebrows went up a little at that. But the guys with the smoothbores were all nodding in agreement. So either they were putting me on as a group or there's something to that.

All of which made me hug my rifled barrel a little tighter....

 

[deckerhead]

I was using musket as a generic catch all for military (or I suppose the trade guns too) type rifles from the 1600-1860's area. I think cap locks came about in the 1840's? I'm not sure the different designation between smoothbore or a rifled firearm, I just thought they were all considered muskets.

Generally the word "Musket" or "Fusil" is misused as people associate it to all old muzzleloaders . Yes they are smoothbore. The term "Rifle" obviously came after the invention riffling a barrel. On another note I now use 3F powder for both priming and charge. Seems to work fine and only need one powder horn.

 

[plinker 777]

I must disagree with you my son. I have several black powder rifles in both flint and cap. I also own a 1723 Bess. It goes bang every time all the time if I do my part. Attention to fixing the flint, and where it strikes the frizzen, keeping the touch hole clean, and ensuring I have proper loading procedures. All of this becomes 2nd nature after a while and does not require a great deal of effort. In fact the lock time on my Bess and my Hawken flinter is shorter than the lock time on my Hawken cap lock. You probably will not believe that. Now be that as it may every time I bring the Bess out to the range I am the center of attention. Folks line up to shoot it and the smiles are a mile wide.
I use a felt over powder wad to help seal the gas and I use a 10thou greased patch (beeswax and Lard) to take up wind age on the 75 cal ball. I get reasonable accuracy as I can hit a 10 inch gong at 50 yards 10 out of 10 times. The important thing here is to have fun, be safe and teach others at every opportunity to advance our hobby of holy black front stuffers no mater they be cap lock, flint lock, or match lock.
Now as to getting to your question. Which musket? Look at all the pretty pictures of the muskets being offered by Marstars. It comes down to which period in History and the style of musket you like. They are all smooth bores with the exception of the rifled muskets. and yes there was such a thing. One advantage to the musket is you can shoot ball, shot, or buckshot in them if they are smooth bore.

Did the Indians put you here? ""Twernt Mormans"".

Cheers & Tighter Groups: Eaglesnester

Oh. My. Gawd!?

Listen, I'm only responsible for what I say, not how you interpret it. For your benefit I'll quote the relevant aspect of what I said..."That's not to say that they can't be made to be reliable..."

I've argued with a whole crew of know nothings on this forum in regards to lock timing and ignition characteristics of Flint and Percussion. The majority position at the time (which I didn't share) was that an ignition delay on a flint lock was normal, acceptable and irreparable, which is of course wrong on all 3 fronts. It doesn't surprise me one iota that you have a lock as fast or faster than a percussion cap. It doesn't make me scratch my head if you were to say the ignition is as fast as a cartridge rifle...THAT'S HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE! The problem is that is NEVER the case with the Indian gun things we were talking about (ok, almost NEVER to err on the side of conservatism) However, to expect a new guy to the BP to not become disenfranchised with just the flint napping (let alone acquiring flint) aspect, never minding recasing of frizzen DOES make me scratch my head though.
Costa On "my son"

 

[Tyockell18]

So I'm not really sure what the problem is but yeah anyway... All black powder guns are great fun. If anyone is reading this and has even an hint of interest, just go for it.

In short: primitive guns are fun, especially when you become competent with them.

 

[warrenlikesboats]

I haven't really noticed much difference in fouling, it's all dirty as hell in my opinion. I agree, 3F is nice and fast for priming but I use 2F for priming all the time and it's plenty quick. I don't bother with 4F anymore, never saw a benefit and sometimes I get a fuse effect filling the flash hole and causing a delay.

I find personally that I am a little more accurate with a 1F load versus 2F but I do have and use both. I have fired main charges of reduced 3F before as well but only occasionally experimenting.

Very interesting, I,ll have to try using 2f to prime my flintlock sometime, I sometimes get a bit of a "fuse effect" when I'm priming with 4f. I'm currently using a 5 grain 4f followed by a main 2f 777 charge.

 

[warrenlikesboats]

I'd swap out the 5grain 4f charge and replace it with 2f pyro as well...

 

[d43p]

Haven't read all the posts but will say if you are getting a flint gun, get a good one. The Indian ones are not what they are cracked up to be, cheaper than most but lacking in quality. Parts are not interchangeable, that is a major problem with them. A good flintlock will be as fast as a percussion any day. I've built lots of them and like Siler locks, geometry of the lock is very good. They are a lot of fun.

 

[Tyockell18]

I'd swap out the 5grain 4f charge and replace it with 2f pyro as well...

pyrodex? Nah you have to use black powder in the flint pan, the sparks are not hot enough to reliably ignite substitutes, you will likely get major delays.

On a side note, I have used Goex, Grafs and schuetzen now, they all work well. I personally think the schuetzen burns a little cleaner than the others though and maybe has a little more kick to it.

 

[BCRider]

Warren, is your recipe for a duplex main charge or are you talking about the pan charge?

I've read about folks using a duplex main charge so there's a hint of proper black to ignite the sub. Which is also why I've seen so many references to the subs not working in a flint lock rifle. Just too hard to set it off without a BP bump starter.

Perhaps shift away from the 4f to a 3f bumper charge? I also found that 3f works just fine in the pan. And the 3f as your bumper charge might flash off a bit faster. And if you don't already know of this trick be sure you don't let the pan charge fill the flash hole. If you do the powder in the flash hole DOES act like a fuse. One of the tricks the old timers taught me is to use a flash hole wire and leave it in place for loading AND while charging the pan. Only just before closing the frizzen does the wire come out.

I only went to 4f when I got a small spout pan horn and found that the 3f would clog the valve of the spring spout. I still get the odd delay but most of the time it goes off with almost the same "lock time" as a cap gun. Or at least it seems that way.

 

[Tyockell18]

Warren, is your recipe for a duplex main charge or are you talking about the pan charge?

I've read about folks using a duplex main charge so there's a hint of proper black to ignite the sub. Which is also why I've seen so many references to the subs not working in a flint lock rifle. Just too hard to set it off without a BP bump starter.

Perhaps shift away from the 4f to a 3f bumper charge? I also found that 3f works just fine in the pan. And the 3f as your bumper charge might flash off a bit faster. And if you don't already know of this trick be sure you don't let the pan charge fill the flash hole. If you do the powder in the flash hole DOES act like a fuse. One of the tricks the old timers taught me is to use a flash hole wire and leave it in place for loading AND while charging the pan. Only just before closing the frizzen does the wire come out.
I only went to 4f when I got a small spout pan horn and found that the 3f would clog the valve of the spring spout. I still get the odd delay but most of the time it goes off with almost the same "lock time" as a cap gun. Or at least it seems that way.

Yup, I use a vent pick and sometimes even a bird feather stuck in there to keep the vent hole clear to the main charge, anything like that will do.

The fuse effect is definitely a real issue that was causing me a lot of grief when I first started out a few years back. Banking your pan powder away from the touch hole helps too, seems to really shoot the flame into the touch hole.

Try to find the minimum reliable ignition amount of pan powder so that you don't have such a huge flash in your face causing flinches. It will help your accuracy.

 

[Edenchef]

Perhaps shift away from the 4f to a 3f bumper charge? I also found that 3f works just fine in the pan. And the 3f as your bumper charge might flash off a bit faster. And if you don't already know of this trick be sure you don't let the pan charge fill the flash hole. If you do the powder in the flash hole DOES act like a fuse. One of the tricks the old timers taught me is to use a flash hole wire and leave it in place for loading AND while charging the pan. Only just before closing the frizzen does the wire come out.

According to historical research this was a method used, except that they used the quill of a feather to plug the flash hole. In wet rainy weather they would leave the feather held in place by the frizzen, to prevent water from entering through the flash hole, until just before taking a shot.

PS. I have used FFg for the flash pan charge, with no noticeable difference in reliability or lock time. I only ever use real Blackpowder in my Flinter, never the substitutes.

 

[QM 8687]

It must have been one too many episodes of the Sharpes Rifles t.v. series that got me thinking about getting a reproduction musket of some sort. Curious how you guys go about deciding? Based on looks, or function, or who carried them?

Are smooth bore rifles good for anything other than a 200-300 year trip back in time? Flintlock or caplock?

I'm not a re-enactor, nor will I be, so I'm wondering what sways your opinion?

Any thoughts or random babble appreciated.

Don't forget Sharpe's 1796 Heavy Cavalry Sword, officer model.

 

[fraserdw]

Don't forget Sharpe's 1796 Heavy Cavalry Sword, officer model.

Yes, there is nothing like 8 pounds of clinging steel when you are trying to sneak around and skirmish tge enemy battleline.

 

[d43p]

In all the years that I've been shooting a flintlock I have used 4F for priming, I've changed in the last few years to 2F and have found no difference in shot time. It's a lot easier to use one horn than two, my main bore charge is generally 2F depending caliber. In smoothbores (fowlers) I like 20ga or .620 bore using a .600 ball. Accuracy is quite good, out to 50yds groups are great if you do your part, recoil is light. .75 bore has a wallop, when shooting a match your shoulder knows it.