How do you level your scope on install?

I also use a small level across the top of the bottom ring half to level the gun, then a plumb line to level the reticle in the rings.

I think it's important to note that sighting through the scope to level or bore sight at something too close will give poor results. I like my aiming mark to be at least 20' away.

I've seen many rifles come out of the back room of a gun shop 'bore sighted' that still aren't on paper at 25y because they are bore sighting at something 8' from the muzzle.
 
TwoTone said:
And what happens after 300 yards?

If the scope is level it doesn't matter what the orientation of the rifle is.
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if you are only shooting for group, and at specific (short) distance, this is of course true. You can have your x-hairs at a 45 degree angle for that matter.

draw a picture of a canted x-hair above a bore, rotate it so the x-hair is level, and imagine what happens when the bullet drops. You want the bullets arc to be exactly parallel to the vertical crosshair, and if the scope is canted, the bullet path/arc will diverge from the vertical crosshair, because it starts off not parallel to the vertical crosshair, and this amount increases with distance.

The divergence isn;t a bunch, and is insignificant for hunting, within reason, but your statement that it does not matter is untrue.
 
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rgv said:
if you are only shooting for group, and at specific (short) distance, this is of course true. You can have your x-hairs at a 45 degree angle for that matter.

draw a picture of a canted x-hair above a bore, rotate it so the x-hair is level, and imagine what happens when the bullet drops. You want the bullets arc to be exactly parallel to the vertical crosshair, and if the scope is canted, the bullet path/arc will diverge from the vertical crosshair, because it starts off not parallel to the vertical crosshair, and this amount increases with distance.

The divergence isn;t a bunch, and is insignificant for hunting, within reason, but your statement that it does not matter is untrue.
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I was thinking (backwards) that the windage error got smaller with distance when in fact the opposite is true.

You are right, sir, and I am wrong. I stand corrected. Thanks.
 
GSoD said:
Place gun in v-notches.

Place torpedo level on flat part of rifle.

Put scope in lower rings.

Place torpedo level on dials and level.

I know the dials maynot be level. But it has always turned out level enough for me.
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I use sandbags to put the gun on, otherwise this is identical to my procedure.
 
I come to this site and go away with an inferiority complex that threatens to send me into full blown depression. For years I have mounted scopes and shot rifles at all sorts of ranges without ever using a level, a plumb bob, a gyroscope, a tuning fork, or anything else any more complex than a screwdriver. And yet, thousands of scope mountings seem to have worked out OK. I even win the occasional match.
When in shooting position, the scope reticle should be plumb. If the rifle is canted, no problem. I really think the ideal method is to get into position with your eyes closed and settle in to where you are comfortable. Rotate the scope (you can open your eyes for this) until the crosshairs are plumb. All will be well for you as long as you are shooting from this position. You will be in a relaxed position and you crosshairs will be plumb. If you are shooting in various positions, you will, of course have to adapt yourself to the rifle/scope to a certain extent. You may prefer to go ahead and try to level the scope to the rifle in this case. An adjustable buttplate/pad allows you to hold the rifle vertical while allowing the plate to fit your shoulder.
Hunting rifles are a bit different. Widely varying positions and shooting conditions mean you are always having to adapt to the rifle along with terrain for evry shot. Regards, Bill.
 
The most important thing is for the crosshairs to be level when you are in a comfortable shooting position, if a bit of rifle cant is needed to do this so be it.

But as rgv pointed out above if the center of the crosshair is not directly above the bore, you will get a change in windage zero with a change in distance. This is of zero consequence to target shooters at known distances with known zeros but could show up as a problem with extreme long range hunters using a large cant.

In general, its a very small effect but its there. The ideal situation would be for the reticle to be level with the rifle.
 
I'am glad I came across this info tonight. I recently purchased a Mueller tactical scope for my Win Mod 70 in .300 WSM and took off an el-cheapo Busnell wide angle 4X12X40 scope (made in Korea) to replace it. I looked at all the fancy Busnell tactical ones (I like the idea of the mil-dot) and a bunch of the others, but my Gunsmith said I can't go wrong with this Mueller scope for what I wanted (all I wanted to do was to be able to hit a bull elk at 300 yards) He said he would order it in, and if I don't like it, or don't want it, he would buy it back for the same price, can't go wrong with that.
So, today my buddy and I head out to the range to try this thing out. I have been around guns for a long time, and thought I knew something about scopes and could simply take off the Bushnell and replace it with my new Meuller in the Weaver mounts I had proffesionally installed sometime ago and bore site the Mod 70. I shot one shot at a huge .95 cent target at 50 yard and I wasn't even on the paper, jesus, now what?, scope must be NFG? We both stood there scratching our heads then along came this Steve guy whom after we introduced ourselves began telling us all about installing a new scope (he could tell we didn't have a clue). Steve had a little kit bag full of scope mounting levels and adjustable torque gunsmith screwdrivers and tons of advice on mounting scopes and went to work for us.
To make a long story short, Steve got the scope all torqued up and shooting on the paper in no time, but made a few comments that relate and verify the above threads. First he said that Weaver mounts are the worst and hardest to instal a scope in if you are not familiar with them. Second, he never Locktites his mounting screws (which is a debatable subject in itself), but relies on proper torque values, rather than Locktite.
The most interesting thing that Steve said was that all the bull elk he has shot (Steve has apparantly shot 13), they were all at about 100 yards away and the closest was 11 yards and the farthest was 220 yards. Hmmm, why did I buy this $900 Winchester and put a $460 scope on it and spend $100 worth of ammo sighting it in when I could of just used my trusty old Remington 7600 pump in .308 (Really old Bushnell 4 power scope)
To sum this up, I think I should let you know what at least I learned from all this for what it's worth
#1 leave the scope mounting to a proffesional if you are not sure
#2 never Locktite your scope mounts because torque should do it and you may want to change the eye relief or vertical alignment of your crosshairs later (Steve did say he may consider the purple Locktite)
#3 Don't ever think you need a 7 zillion dollar scope for you rifle when there are many others available that will do a surprisingly good job for way less (we are not A USMC sniper, and I am very happy with the new Meuller scope I bought for what I want to shoot at)
#4, now that I think of it, why can't we just go into the old gun cabinet and take out hunting and USE one of our old trusty favorite 30-30's, or .303 Enfield sportorized (instead of buying that $1000 plus rifle and scope that our wives don't want us to have anyway?), or what have you and still be able to shoot good enough to put meat in the freezer?
#5 Steve says you don't need (and actually laughed at us about this) a .95 cent target, he uses 1/4 inch grauf (sp?)paper and a black magic marker spot in the middle.
Have a safe and bountiful hunting season guys, and remember if the women can't find you hansome, they always love a hunter who comes home with the meat.
 
gallen270 said:
i made a mark on my wall with a sharpie and a level.

I vice the gun on a straight table and line up across the room.
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x2, but I use a shooting rest.

You can see the plumb sharpie line thru the bore. Center it. The get the crosshair on the same line. If they're not on the same line, your rifle isn't plumb and adjust until they are. Then rotate the vertical scope line to the same sharpie line on the wall and re-check the bore/crosswire continually to be sure they stayed put. It's not perfect, but you can get it pretty darn close. If, after a few minutes of buggering around, you bump the whole shebang with your knee, swear loudly and start over.
 
I eyeball it and have never had a problem.

I have an uncanny sense of level from working in Masonry when I was younger. :D

But if I had to I would try this device listed at the bottom of this page...

w w w.303british.com/id46.html

Segway Reticle Leveler
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i eyeball mine to a level surface with the rifle to my shoulder.. if i make sure its completely level it thows me off as i shoulder a rifle with a little cant. seems to make no differece in field accuracy and when shouldered it looks perfectly leval. i also will not use weaver rings as they drive me crazy because they always rotate the scope when tightning..
 
Depending on the scope, it can be pretty simple. For example, Nightforce certifies that the horizontal reticule line is parallel to the flat surface under the scope. What does this means? Well, if you've done right choice you should have a one-piece base. ;) So then all you have to do is place the scope in the rings, and use feelers gauge to put the scope's flat perfectly parallel with the one-piece base. Done!

When you don't have that kind of scope and/or a one-piece base, then your technique is just fine. HOWEVER, if you aren't sure 100% that your scope is perfectly level, make sure that, in your small error margin, the vertical reticule line tends to be more towards 11-5 O'clock than 1-7 O'clock. Why? Well there will be less error this way has this will compensate a little for the impact your right-hand twist barrel has on your bullet's trajectory.


Finally, I'll leave you with something else to think about. Leveling your scope, depending on said scope's quality/internal alignment/tracking, can be done for two different purpose:
If you're the holdover type, then make sure your reticule's vertical line is perfectly vertical using your standard plumb line technique (and not forgetting about error margin and tendency towards 11 O'Clock thingy).

If you're a clicker, then it's a little bit touchy. You see, if the internals of the scope aren't perfectly aligned, let's say for example that the lenses on which the crosshair is etched isn't, rotation-wise speaking, perfectly placed, and that you align it with the plumb line technique, then when you click your elevation values the center of the crosshair won't move vertically. So if you're a clicker, you must make sure that your scope tracks perfectly vertically, parallel to the crosshair's vertical line.


It really isn't as simple as it may seems! :p
 
frzburn said:
If you're the holdover type, then make sure your reticule's vertical line is perfectly vertical using your standard plumb line technique (and not forgetting about error margin and tendency towards 11 O'Clock thingy).

If you're a clicker, then it's a little bit touchy. You see, if the internals of the scope aren't perfectly aligned, let's say for example that the lenses on which the crosshair is etched isn't, rotation-wise speaking, perfectly placed, and that you align it with the plumb line technique, then when you click your elevation values the center of the crosshair won't move vertically. So if you're a clicker, you must make sure that your scope tracks perfectly vertically, parallel to the crosshair's vertical line.


It really isn't as simple as it may seems! :p
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Good points.

If it isn't level, you'll also be puzzled by what happens when you sight in at the range.

What I can't figure out is how to factor in the natural cant that I must have when I shoulder a rifle. I hope the existence of a plumb vertical line - done when the scope was mounted - tells my brain to make any necessary hold adjustment when the sight picture appears, but who knows?
 
grant580 said:
I'am glad I came across this info tonight. I recently purchased a Mueller tactical scope for my Win Mod 70 in .300 WSM and took off an el-cheapo Busnell wide angle 4X12X40 scope (made in Korea) to replace it. I looked at all the fancy Busnell tactical ones (I like the idea of the mil-dot) and a bunch of the others, but my Gunsmith said I can't go wrong with this Mueller scope for what I wanted (all I wanted to do was to be able to hit a bull elk at 300 yards) He said he would order it in, and if I don't like it, or don't want it, he would buy it back for the same price, can't go wrong with that.
So, today my buddy and I head out to the range to try this thing out. I have been around guns for a long time, and thought I knew something about scopes and could simply take off the Bushnell and replace it with my new Meuller in the Weaver mounts I had proffesionally installed sometime ago and bore site the Mod 70. I shot one shot at a huge .95 cent target at 50 yard and I wasn't even on the paper, jesus, now what?, scope must be NFG? We both stood there scratching our heads then along came this Steve guy whom after we introduced ourselves began telling us all about installing a new scope (he could tell we didn't have a clue). Steve had a little kit bag full of scope mounting levels and adjustable torque gunsmith screwdrivers and tons of advice on mounting scopes and went to work for us.
To make a long story short, Steve got the scope all torqued up and shooting on the paper in no time, but made a few comments that relate and verify the above threads. First he said that Weaver mounts are the worst and hardest to instal a scope in if you are not familiar with them. Second, he never Locktites his mounting screws (which is a debatable subject in itself), but relies on proper torque values, rather than Locktite.
The most interesting thing that Steve said was that all the bull elk he has shot (Steve has apparantly shot 13), they were all at about 100 yards away and the closest was 11 yards and the farthest was 220 yards. Hmmm, why did I buy this $900 Winchester and put a $460 scope on it and spend $100 worth of ammo sighting it in when I could of just used my trusty old Remington 7600 pump in .308 (Really old Bushnell 4 power scope)
To sum this up, I think I should let you know what at least I learned from all this for what it's worth
#1 leave the scope mounting to a proffesional if you are not sure
#2 never Locktite your scope mounts because torque should do it and you may want to change the eye relief or vertical alignment of your crosshairs later (Steve did say he may consider the purple Locktite)
#3 Don't ever think you need a 7 zillion dollar scope for you rifle when there are many others available that will do a surprisingly good job for way less (we are not A USMC sniper, and I am very happy with the new Meuller scope I bought for what I want to shoot at)
#4, now that I think of it, why can't we just go into the old gun cabinet and take out hunting and USE one of our old trusty favorite 30-30's, or .303 Enfield sportorized (instead of buying that $1000 plus rifle and scope that our wives don't want us to have anyway?), or what have you and still be able to shoot good enough to put meat in the freezer?
#5 Steve says you don't need (and actually laughed at us about this) a .95 cent target, he uses 1/4 inch grauf (sp?)paper and a black magic marker spot in the middle.
Have a safe and bountiful hunting season guys, and remember if the women can't find you hansome, they always love a hunter who comes home with the meat.
Click to expand...

cheers to that ! and the old 30-30 and 2.5 weaver :rockOn:
 
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