how does one compare HK SL8 & AR 15

twistedbrilliance

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How do you rate your SL8 in competitive shooting matches compared to an AR15 rifle. I have been planning on doing a custom ar15 build and am now considering getting an SL8 first. I will probably do the AR first but who knows.
Has anyone ever hunted with there sl8 like people do with there XCR's. As I think I would prefer the SL8 to a XCR for sure. ( I haven't had the opportunity to try the SL8 or the XCR)
 
the sl8 is notoriously more accurate than an XCR. I have seen pictures of .5' groups at what the person says is 500 yards... not sure if that is true, but they have a reputation for being very accurate. the difference you are going to notice with building an sl8 with aftermarket parts as opposed to an ar 15 is that the parts cost you as much as an ar 15 lol. but that is if you want your rifle to look like a G36. If you would use an sl8 as a non-restricted varmint rifle and dont mind the polymer receiver, then go for it. (thats what I am planning to do).

that is my .02 c I am in the process of looking for a used SL8 right now as a matter of fact.

good luck with your decision, I think you will be happy with whatever you choose as they are both very reliable accurate designs.
 
Well, since way more people own AR15 rifles... I'm not sure the SL8 crowd will be able to get a word in!

Is this a challenge, good sir?

No, definitely get an AR. The non restricted, clean running piston action of the SL8 combined with it's target heavy barrel, and a charging handle you can't pull with your teeth from the comfort of the shooting position makes it a terrible competition firearm. Add to that the horrible attempt at ambidextrous operation and the cheap nylon receiver (probably made from recycled pantihose) and the terrible free-floating hand-guard with well-integrated optional bi-pod shrouding the chrome-lined cold-hammer-forged 1-in-7 inch twist 500mm long barrel makes the SL8 the rifle you would only want your competitors to suffer operating with in a competition.

Seriously, if you've used an AR for at least an hour, go with the AR, because you will hate anything else and Eugene Stoner is your only true prophet.
If you're unfortunate enough to have never been exposed to the radiant joy that an AR in-hand can allegedly bring it's user, you'll never look back from the SL8*. Even after you've spent two weeks on the AR, you will return to the hideous petroleum-based excuse for a target rifle with a smile not different from the smile of a 16 year old now-non-virgin who doesn't know she's pregnant yet.

Dislaimer: I shoot the HK Plastics Collection. Haven't found time to assemble the AR from the pile of parts, as I'm so busy caressing/shooting/cleaning (well, not so much cleaning, it's a really clean design) my HK. And because it's plastic, sleeping with it in a loving embrace is not a cold experience, as would be with an AR.

I've heard of people hunting with SL8's, but it is limited to the 5.56mm caliber, where as the XCR can be sized to a 7.62mm caliber projectile. Check you local (Ontario's regulations make it good for deer) hunting regulations.

Also, some people hate the 20N trigger, and feel it should be lighter, but there is little that can be done about the trigger, (except make it heavier like I did, 'cos I'm into masochism). It's two-stage-ish, it's very smooth, very clean break, but that's not like the AR where there are a myriad of triggers to pick and choose from.

Your budget of 3000$ should be enough to purchase the SL8 (~1800$ on the EE), and still have about a grand to pimp it to your linking. If you already have the optics, you could use that grand to make a convincing G36 analogue running from AR mags. Certainly will take more time to find all the parts than if you are building an AR.

If you have any questions about the SL8 please read the FAQ, and if it's not answered or you have something very specific with many variables, PM me. In my experience, with a heavy 40N trigger spring, 55gr PMC ammo at a distance of 100 meters, three shots from the SL8 were within a loonie (shot by some old guy at the local range who asked to try a few shots).

Best of all, find a target AR, ask it's owner to let you shoot it. Find an SL8 owner, and ask it's owner to shoot it. Bring your own ammo, and tell both of the owners that you want more than "a couple of shots", but that you want them to show you everything, good and bad about their rifle. Most people love attention to themselves or their 'equipment', so you'll most likely get a positive answer. Then make your own conclusions.

Oh, and many an AR can mount a bayonet (the default front sight post usually includes a bayo-lug), while almost no SL8 can. If you like manly things like bayonets for those up-close-and-in-your-face encounters with wildlife, that might be a factor in your decision. Admittedly, the AR is restricted and the only wildlife it would in theory be exposed to would be your pets if you have any and trust them not to drool all over your guns (but who can blame them for not keeping that lower mandible in the full upright and locked position around the contents of your safe?).

*For complete love of your HK, some modifications may be required, but this is no different from customizing an AR to create your perfect abomination.
 
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The only way to know for sure is to try both.

However, in that price range, an off-the-shelf SL8 is likely to be more accurate than an AR in my opinion.

I would warn you though, unless you're going with some super high end KAC stuff, the price ceiling on an AR is very reasonable. With the H&K, you may find yourself obsessively looking for hard to find parts and spending a fortune on them, dealing with import paperwork, and neglecting the other aspects of your life to get "just this one last mod to make it perfect".
 
Having owned an HK SL8-5 and 3 AR15s, I can comfortably say that unless you are hunting in a province that allows .223 for big game you should get the AR15. IMO the SL8 is an alright rifle but I wasn't a huge fan of it. Things I liked about it:

1.) It's an HK - the name means quality and the SL8 is a pretty good reliable rifle.
2.) It has a nice piston driven action with chrome lined barrel = lots of rounds fired, lowered wear and cleaner action to deal with.
3.) It looks pretty cool - futuristic with the thumbhole stock which is adjustable for LOP and Comb.

Things I didn't like about it:

1.) It doesn't use AR15 mags - some guys don't care but mag availability is important to me. I don't like having to search all over for HK mags. Yeah there is an adapter to use AR15 mags but I don't want to pay extra to use mags that are pretty much the best and plentiful around.

2.) The thumbhole stock doesn't fit me. I found that it would bite into the webbing of my hand carrying it in the field and I just didn't like the way it felt. I eventually stopped using it in the field because it just didn't feel right.

3.) Accessories are really limited and pretty pricey if you buy the HK stuff. I also don't like that the accessory rail is plastic. I know that many will say it is stable but I don't trust a plastic rail that is just held on with screws.

4.) No Flash hider, pistol grip, or any other mods allowed without significantly modding the rifle. These rifles are pretty expensive new - I think they were running in the low 2K range when I got mine and for that kind of coin, I don't think I should have to thread the barrel, change the lower, and put on a mag adapter before I can put the stuff on that I want to use.

At the end of the day you can make an SL8 work for you but if you are going to shoot competitively, I think you should get an AR15. Everything and its brother is made for that platform. If you can swing it I would say get an XCR as it will give you everything compatible with AR15 platforms less the stock (you would need an adapter for that) and you can hunt with it.

As for accuracy, no internet rumors here. The SL8 shoots well but I would call bs on .5" at 500m with that rifle. Most boltguns would have a really hard time getting those kind of groups at 500m with a 223 round. When I had an SL8 it was a realistic 1-2" shooter with most groups closer to the 2" groups at 100m with 10 shots (For Semis I shoot 10 round strings to confirm accuracy/ 3 or 5 shot groups are too small a number to get a consistent view of what the rifle can do). I shot it with everything from 55grains to 75 grains (AMAX) and it was nothing spectacular but it did everything a semi should. It may shoot a bit better then an XCR but I would say that it wouldn't be noticeable for long strings at competitive shooting competitions.
 
I am not sure what competitive shooting you are referring to, so it is hard to say.

Back in 1996 it is an ok idea when the Bundeswehr need to hand out affordable rifles to a largely conscript force. So it is ok to plug in a cheapo Hensoldt with a short eye relief, and then put in an ambidexious charging handle in front of it. G36 is optimized for that configuration ( the same thinking as AUG, TAVOR.....)

Then they hacked it up to make the SL-8. All of a sudden they realize the civilian market will mount different optics on it and the rail height issue is becoming obvious when it has to bridge across the charging handle. It is great if the users wear gas masks (perhaps that is the reason many police tactical teams like the G36) If you look at most of the Europeans weapons designed up to the 90's, they were optimized to one configuration and other additional accessories were added on like afterthoughts.

However, the format is not so hot by mid 2000's when their rifles had lots of life to go but the original optics demonstrated serious deficiency......

It is pretty obvious why the German cottage firearms industry, other than HK, has been feverishly churning out AR clones for civilian consumption in the last 10 years.....and HK is so eager to push out the MR223 to the European market.
 
After watching the videos that Hungry has posted from the Ontario Rifle Association I am very excited to get into it myself.
I will certainly get myself a nice AR15 to customize, I am however pondering getting something I can also use on my family farm and maybe hunt with. The Tavor is a contender as well but the price is high for me and I will just have to wait longer if thats what I decide to get. Basically I will need about a year to save between rifles so thats where I am getting stuck.
 
I would get the sl8 or an xcr and try that in 3 gun with lar mags and if you don't like it for 3 gun in a year you can build your ar.

But that is just what I would do.
 
I don't want to pay extra to use mags that are pretty much the best and plentiful around.

The SIG mags and the HK mags are leaps and bounds past the AR mags in feeding reliability. Yes, the plastic locking nubs to string the mags into groups do break, but if you run an AR and an HK using their respective mags: USGI mags for the AR, G36 mags for the SL8, the SL8 will have less problems. The only reason AR mags are a big deal in Canada is that they are available as pistol mags, when over all, AR mag design is rubbish compared to what else is out there. Lancer L5, Magpul EMAG, yeah, the make tolerable AR mags, but the default AR mag is refuse to be collected.

No Flash hider

A flash hider for a competitive shooting matches? The SL8 heavy barrel is pretty good at preventing muzzle rise straight from the factory.

You everything compatible with AR15 platforms less the stock

Are AR stocks really the best thing ever? I've always wondered about the desire of many an AR-lover to try to turn everything around them into an AR:

"Oh, XCR! Gotta jam an AR stock up it's rear and slap on some tall AR sights-maybe one of 'em carry handles, just to remember the boys in 'Nam!"

If you want an AR, get an AR. If you want something other than an AR, get something other than an AR. Trying to make AR's out of something that is not an AR is ridiculous. If the firearms designer felt that an AR stock would work best with their firearm, they most certainly would have included it. And why get a non-folding AR stock when you can get a factory stock that folds?

Maybe I sound like an AR hater, but it seems like a design that lacks a few key things, namely: compact storage size and a non-fowling, reliable action (which gets magnified by junk magazines). Sure, the piston action of SL8 affects accuracy (by imaginary amounts), but if you want accuracy, get a bolt gun instead of an autoloader.
 
Oenen: I think you need to consider that AR parts are plentiful and pretty much top notch for what you need to do with it. HK or Sig mags may be better but who cares? I can get a perfectly good functioning ar15 mag for like 30 bucks or pay double that for an HK/Sig mag. As for AR stocks - it isn't a question that 1 particular AR stock is better then another or that Sig/HK/XCR stocks suck. It is just a fact that different stocks fit different folks. I would argue that the one size fits none concept used by SIG, HK, and RA XCR - is pretty darn dumb. People come in all shapes and sizes so a multiple LOP stock makes much more sense - a modern carbine/black rifle should at least come with a multi length stock as a factory feature...
 
this might be a dumb question, but do the sig/swiss arms mags fit HK rifles?

Thanks,

J

EDIT: never mind they are different....
 
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I wish I could win the lottery, Ohh the guns i would buy:D
Or even if I could just get a job where I make decent money, so I could buy both.
 
USGI mags for the AR, G36 mags for the SL8, the SL8 will have less problems. The only reason AR mags are a big deal in Canada is that they are available as pistol mags, when over all, AR mag design is rubbish compared to what else is out there. Lancer L5, Magpul EMAG, yeah, the make tolerable AR mags, but the default AR mag is refuse to be collected.
.

USGI mags are junk cool, now I know to start having problems.
 
I love both platforms for different reasons.

It depends on what you are planning on doing to be honest.

For run and gun, AR is the way to go, but the HK is far better in terms of accuracy.

That being said, it is fun to use an uncommon rifle every now and then for matches.

Here is my .02

AR Platforms:

Pro's
- Lightweight, easily one of the smartest designs for a .223 rifle where size and weight are a concern.
- Low cost, at least for entry and mid-end rifles.
- Good Ergonomics
- Aftermarket parts everywhere for every purpose and price range.
- 10 round pistol magazines.


Cons
- DI is a dirty system.
- Mag's not as durable (Some may say reliable, but that is debatable) as other rifles.


HK SL8 Platform:

Pro's

- Beats the AR platform hands down for accuracy. A heavy target barrel ensures repeatable accuracy.
- Ergonomics are great
- Heavy rifle, reduces felt recoil to almost nothing. (Bonus. If you run out of ammo, just throw it at your target to kill him. It is that heavy.)
- Heavy duty magazines are very durable
- AR Magwell conversions are available to take the 10 round magazines.
- Ambidexterous friendly out of the box.
- Non-restricted. Take it out to the woods and have fun! Take that AR lovers!
- With some work it can be made to look like a G-36. How cool is that?

Con's

- Price. They tend to be expensive and harder to find then AR's.
- Weight. The same weight that negates much of the recoil means if you want to do any run and gun stuff, you better have strong arms. It is front heavy, have no misgivings about that.
- Size. This is a big rifle. If you see one beside an AR-15, it just seems massive and clumsy.
- No bolt release. You have to rack the handle to release the bolt. You can get a bolt release for $25 though, and that solves that problem, making reloads competitive with AR's.



Here is mine.


Flattop Rail with EOtech.

SANY0248.jpg



Factory Dual Optic. Short eye relief, but superbley accurate.

SANY0253.jpg



Close up of the Trigger, Safety, and aftermarket Bolt Release.

SANY0827.jpg


And a quick video I made showing reloads with the improved bolt release.

[youtube]sOvFG_fqzho[/youtube]
 
Glock4ever,

I'm an SL8 owner (I have more than one) and one of the HKs has an adjustable Magpul CTR stock on it.

It's not limited to the thumbhole stock.

Think of it as comparing a Chevy to a BMW. BMWs have all sorts of great options, but they're expensive to add on.

Chevy's have all sorts of options as well and they also cost money, but the initial cost/quality of the rifle is considerably lower.

One other thing to point out. My HK can go anywhere with me as it's NON-RESTRICTED. AR15s cannot (I believe this is also the same case for the Sig and RA XCR as well).
 
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