How does one start off gunsmithing

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This is a field that has always fascinated me. However I find it quite difficult to get started.

I wanted to start with a small project just to get my feet wet.

I had found a neat .45 acp conversion kit for a K98 large ring. The whole process was highlighted in an article by Coffield.

Just the ticket, a nice threaded and reamed barrel, the mag conversion and up an away.

However I am finding it difficult in getting these conversion kits. There from Rhineland :rolleyes:

So my question is where in Canada can I get some fairly simple kits to start me off.

I would would want to stay with Mauser actions for the simple reason of simplicity.

Thanks
 
No one "starts off" gunsmithing in Canada anymore do they? Ya gotta arrange to go back in time and be born somewhere else in a society with a decent respect for that trade complete with apprenticeships. Then move here, ply your trade and die off without ever sharing the secrets of the trade with anyone else.
 
Keep in mind that gunsmithing is among the most demanding forms of craftsmanship, requiring a high level of knowledge of numerous disciplines. IMHO you should at the very least attend and graduate from a machinists course. On your own time you could start purchasing books and tools related to gunsmithing. If you get a Brownells Catalog you will find much of what you will need. A small drill press, a table top lathe, and some hand tools could get you started on small projects for yourself or some friends. After graduation from the machinists course you could try and badger a local gunsmith into letting you help out around the shop. You could then begin to advertise to do small repairs or install scopes, and do gun cleaning as a side line. Over time this could then grow into something more for you. Do not take on jobs which are beyond your ability - it seems that disgruntled clients talk to more people than happy clients.
 
Every time someone asks how to become a gunsmith, someone always suggests that the person should take a machinists course, or a course in carpentry...to get an insight into the trade of gunsmithing. If I went to all the trouble to learn a trade other than gunsmithing, I would probably be working as a machinist or a carpenter. I know people who work full-time as gunsmiths and do not own a lathe or milling machine. Also, how many gunsmiths in Canada do not do bluing, do not do the checkering of wood or metal, or any of the many jobs that gunsmiths require? What I am saying is that a lot of gunsmiths do simple repair work, refinishing, and get by quite well. My advise to somebody who wants to get into the gunsmith trade would be to pay the money to take the gunsmithing course in the USA. But if you do not want to go that route, because of time or money, then I suggest that you buy every single book that you can find on gunsmithing, and read and study them. Second thing to do is buy tools. Don't think that you are going to show up at a gunsmith's shop and start to work using the tools that a gunsmith has spent a lifetime acquiring. The first thing I would suggest to learn would be gun bluing. Nothing teaches a person more about guns than stripping them down, cleaning and polishing them in preparation for bluing. If you don't have the room for hot caustic bluing then look into rust bluing. Stock refinishing is another good place to start. Do you know how many gunsmiths in this country do not checker wood? As you get proficient in these jobs, you can move on to the many different jobs that is required in being a full fledged gunsmith. And then you can sit across the counter from your customer while he brags about the great deals in scopes and ammo that he got at WalMart and Canadian Tire.

Best of luck to you...Don
 
All good advice above. You have to have tool skills. If you are going to work on other people's property, for pay, you have to be able to do work to a high professional standard. Acquire books, acquire tools, build your skills. You can learn by doing. Don't get in over your head. If you are looking for self employment, you have to consider how many billable hours you could work a week, and how much an hour you could charge. Then consider operating overhead, and the net that is left is your living. And every customer leaning on your counter bragging about the great deal they got at WalMart or Canadian Tire is taking time away from your billable hours. And if you decide to get into retail sales to supplement cash flow, consider who your competition is going to be - every discounter and big mailorder house. The fulll time gunsmiths who are able to make a living are the ones who have built a customer base, and offer services that folks are prepared to pay for.
 
#1: Get a wife who likes guns and has a high paying secure job with a good pension plan with spousal benefits.

#2: Keep her happy.

#3: Take a 2 year course in Gunsmithing in the U.S. (Keep her happy)

#4: Build up your gunsmithing abilities. (Keep her happy)

#5: Build up a clientele. (Keep her happy)
 
Come on guys, don't discourage every new smith, this country needs a few more. We need support here, let's start with the guys who can make and fix these things and keep our hobby going.
 
Casull No discouragement intended. Many guys figure they can get into the trade with little investment or training, and still make a living.
This is not uaually the case, like any skilled trade, it takes many years to develop the skill and then the trust of the consumer before the business is even remotely viable. To start up is not easy as banks do not like us, it is easier to get financing to open a brothel. So unless 1 has a great amount of cash to invest ,it is a really hard trade to start up in. I suggest to anyone trying to get into it , to look long and hard at the costs. Education in the US is VERY expensive for anyone from a foreign country. Machine equipment is not cheap either and the specialty tools alone will cost thousands of dollars.
To have a trade like a machinist as a regular job and tinker for many years on guns until a name and competency are both developed will take years, but at least 1 will not starve to death in the meanwhile.
You are absolutely correct about needing more gunsmiths, unfortunately we are a dieing breed, due to government controls, costs ,and the fact that so many Canadians would rather support big US names than trying to keep our industry alive at home
 
gunsrocky
Your post brings up a good point, when is a gunsmith really a gunsmith.
If the gunsmith is not trained, or capable of fabricating gun parts from scratch, perhaps he should not call himself a gunsmith but rather a firearms repair person and not confuse his clientele with false credentials.
Should the designation “gunsmith” not be bestowed on those who are qualified in this profession?
 
Casull, no discouragement intended.

Many guys figure they can get into the trade with little investment or training, and still make a living. To start up is not easy as banks and insurance companies do not like us. Education in the US is VERY expensive for anyone from a foreign country. Machine equipment is not cheap either and the specialty tools alone will cost thousands of dollars.

We need more compentant gunsmiths, but gun owners and gunsmiths are a dieing breed, I think due to a changing Canada more than anything. When the east elect the Liberals again it will continue to decline.

I would just like to add that during the two years I spent at gunsmithing school in Trinidad, Colorado I was taught the basics in gas welding, lathe and milling machine, etc, metals and heat treating, metal working (forged and made stockmaking chisels and gouges and smaller wood carving tools and checkering tools), taught how to inlet and shape a stock blank and finishing and how to checker and carve, how to thread and fit and chamber a barrel, choke alterations and shotgun barrel work and more. All the basics to make a custom rifle using an existing action. On the side I learned a bit about barrel making and made a rifle barrel at the home of one of my instructors. I also worked a bit in New Mexico on weekends at a reamer maker helping out. I picked up enough knowledge to know I did not want to make barrels or reamers. On top of that we had some practical gun repairs on common firearms taught and reloading. On graduation you have a lot of experience to start but you need a lot more.

I got a job as a gunsmith in an existing very busy firearms business that had some tooling. I worked as a store clerk as well. I gained a tremendous amount of knowledge over the next ten years repairing commercial firearms and doing a bit of custom stock work and rifle building and my skill developed to a fairly good level. More money is made in repairing and simple jobs as scope mounting, recoil pad installation, and fixing broken guns and cleaning them than in custom work. Sure it is nice to build a fine rifle, doing the precise metal work, flawless blueing, and custom stock with fine checkering and maybe some carved patterns and get the praise from those who appreciate the skill and effort spent.... but it is not what puts the bread and butter on the table and it is easy to get burnt out on doing the labour intensive work for others.

Eventually you save a bit and buy tooling as you can and eventually you can have a big investment and gunsmith full time if you have a paid off mortgage and a wife working too. I forgot to mention how expensive it is to raise a family.
 
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Hey guys, it seems a shame that there is not some more reasonable way to get into this without leaving the country. I once worked at a gunshop that didn't last long. The "gunsmith" was the graduate of the "Sally Struthers" gunsmithing program that used to be advertised. Some course you could sign up for on the back of a match box. Then he was a "gunsmith". Of course this is foolish and the shop folded fast. But he actually got a lot of little repair jobs and mounting scopes and sighting rifles for hunting season and such. But, we need some skilled gunsmiths with knowledge and experience and a willingness to take on the jobs. It can be hard to get work done in Canada on a gun project in a timely fashion and the way you want it done with a reasonable price. How do we get the junior guys up to this level?
I have a lathe and milling machine and other equipment but I am not a gunsmith. I bought all of this and am working to get the knowledge to properly do the projects I want done without the wait, the translation of the idea and the price, that comes with having any custom work done, I know I am not saving money buying the tools instead of laying it out on the good smiths to do all of my work. My reason is selfish in that I have always been fascinated with doing this and making rifle to my own taste. I don't want to be a working gunsmith that sells services as I have another career altogether. Would it mot be great if we found a way to support the small smiths in the learning curve with small jobs amd mods to work them up and keep them here. I would far rather do that than send my money south of the border. There seems to be some need to get a proper training course and qualification system for Canadian smiths, Then for us to support them with our business so they can eat until they reach the level that they have a consistent market for their skills and specialties and and quality products. I don't know if that helps a lot but I am just trying to explain the problem as we see coming up on here. It seems there are enough of us interested to put together some sanctioning of trainging and smith get togethers or whatever it takes.
Sorry for the ramble, I seem to have more questions than answers and I am getting concerned about what comes next when the current roster of smiths gives the whole thing up.
 
In todays age, ALL the trades are having a hard time attracting new people to learn them. Todays young people for the most part would rather invest in education to do with "white collar" work. Big "clean" money being the draw.
I know enrollment at SAIT is down in most areas, I would think in 20 years it will be a real chore to find any mechanic, let alone a good 1. Same holds true in gunsmithing. The reality is that there are a few who have the interest, but no where near enough for a trade school to offer training up here.
Another problem with the trade is that most people want work done for a "reasonable" cost. What is reasonable?? People pay a door rate of nearly $100.00 per hour or more to have work done on their vehicles. To properly outfit a gunsmith shop alone, let alone stock it, cost about the same as outfitting a small auto repair shop, except that financing is easier for the auto shop. I have well over 1/2 million dollars invested, a machinist should make about the same hourly wage as a mechanic I think, yet many tell me my $90.00 per hour shop rate is "unreasonable" or excessive. I fail to see the logic. My costs are the same as my mechanics, and most clients take far more of my time to get a job on the go, and yet still many will tell me they can save the parts cost, by buying them illegally in the US. Do these guys do the same with their mechanics? I know what auto parts sell for, yet would not dream of challenging the dealership with the fact that I can buy my oil filter at Cambodian Tire for less, as I do not trust their mechanics with my truck so choose to use the dealerships expertise.
As long as gunsmiths are expected to work for less and yet produce artforms I see no benefit to becoming 1 except for personal gratification. I have spent 30 years of my life working in this trade, the first 20 part time as that was all I could afford, that being said all things in life worth attaining are worth some sacrifice. I for 1 can say I love going to work
 
ATR is very correct. When someone wants a "deal" I ask them if they would give their boss a "deal" and work a few hours for free every day. It is exactly the same thing. They always say no. My favorite was when a fellow told me he also was a business man and that we were too expensive, and then he drove away in his new Mercedes. I drive past the dealership every day but that is as close as I will ever come in this business.
 
al flipo I really dont see a problem with smiths that do not do certain jobs.Stick with what your good at . some shops only do blueing and nothing else,but thats what they want to do_Other shops get along fine and have never ever blued a gun. If every shop in Canada that did not do completly everthing that gunsmiths do,was closed , there would not be any left.I dont work on handguns,or put on any teflon ,camo ,type finish.I have had customers ask if I do engraving. I cant draw a picture on a paper .So I stay away from engraving tools.Some shops dont do shotgun chokes, some do. The main thing is to do whatever you do really well.
 
I have seen a website for a 'gunsmithing' school somewhere in Quebec. There was also a 1/4 page add in the January?? edition of Canadian Access looking for someone to learn the trade. I believe it was in northern Ontario.
 
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