How does one use this type of sight?

tkv000

tkv000

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I bought a nice Vickers Martini action .22 from a fellow gunnut, it has 2 sets of rear sights on it, one is a standard "Parker Hale" notch system, which is missing the adjustment screw (if anyone knows where I can find one do tell) and the other is further rear, and is an aperture sight, with adjustable "eye disks", I've never used anything like this, I could use some advice... Do I just put the front hole around the center of said target while looking threw the rear "disk"?

VickersMartini002.jpg


VickersMartini003.jpg


RearAperturesight.jpg


Also, the rear sight has a hole in the bottom, to allow cleaning from the breech end (Did I mention I'm not familiar with this type of action AT ALL?) But I'm not sure now to get the falling block out of the way, again, advice needed.

I found this info, but it doesn't detail the cleaning or how to use the sights

http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Vickers_Martini_rifles.htm

-Trev:confused:
 
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Martini

Right side of receiver infront of the trigger at front end of the receiver is a screw {originally designed to be removed with a shilling}. Block pulls out of bottom.
The eye puts concentric circles inside one another more accurately than any other sighting system [as used in the Olympics etc.]
It is important that you use a bull that fits inside the front sight with just a little white showing around the bull - 3 circles total - can be more accurate than a scope - no parallax, lens error, gimbel error etc.
 
chopper 1, you said it right! Extremely accurate. Especially for off hand target shooting, a favourite expression when the shot looked good as it fired, was, "It just looked like the full moon."
 
So I need another circle inside the front sights circle? Thought I was confused before! :D

And whats the point of different eye disks in the rear? would you adjust those for different ranges?
 
no, you misunderstood him. As you sight through the rear aperture you center the front circle over the black target ring. This gives you the target, circled by the front aperture, which is circled by the rear aperture. Depending on how close your eye is to the rear aperture, or what size the front aperture is, you may need to change the size of the rear aperture.Totally confused now?:)And yes, it is an extremely accurate method of aiming!
 
What a sweet find! :)

Built back in a time when a .22 target rifle was expected to shoot out to 200 yards, and came complete... ie meaning not needing hundreds of gizmo's and aftermarket add ons. . :)
 
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What Chopper was explaining...... was the targets this sight system was intended for is a round black aiming mark (black dot)

The front sight (insert, insight front sight) come in different sizes, they are marked on them, and are interchangable for varying distances, as well as, for personal preferances. I know some people that like to have it very small, or some that have it vary large.

As said above the human eye can centre these , "very smal / very large" was in relation to how the black aiming mark appears inside the front sight insert. (picture if you will ... place a small jar lid on the table, then lay a roll of masking tape (larger than lid) over it. look down and move the roll to centre the lid, that is how the sight system is to work.

The rear sight is an added to ensure the rifle moves as one unit. Alining the front & rear, then looking at the target allows any movement or adjustment to the sight pic means the "line of sight " will move as one line.

The personal preferance of small or large front insert, is the amount of 'white' showing around the black aiming mark, OR in my example, around the jar lid. When there is only a small amount showing, it can be very hard to percisely centre the target, if you increase the insert size some, it will increase the 'white' showing around the target and help make the centring more percise AND will be more consistant.

If you become very consistantly accurate with the rifle, but still seem to be 'walking around the bull' and I mean not getting "the perfect centred bull" then try going one size larger on the insert to see if you can be more consistant, in each shot.

As with any shooting sport, consistancy if the key factor, if you fire 20 shots with out look at their impacts, but shoot all of them exactly the same.... you may be a foot from the point of aim, but you should still have a small enlarged hole from 20 bullets.... all you have to do is don't change anything.... just adjust your sights, and carry on.

Enjoy the Martini, historically a very accurate rifle.
 
I have similar sights on an old Mossberg .22, except the rear sight swings in from a side mount.They are the simplest sights I've ever used, just circle it, and whack it.
Scott
 
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you do not focus your eye on the rear sight. Focus on the front sight and target. The rear sight hole should be a fuzzy blur. Your eye will automatically centre the front sight in the rear sight peep hole (peep sights :)) have fun
 
The different rear aperture hole sizes are to compensate for different light conditions. I don't think that there are really any hard fast rules on what size to use when. Generally bigger hole for less light but the smaller the hole the less margin for error.

Experiment to see what gives you the sharpest image at the front sight and target - ignore the rear as was mentioned. Then just put the target in the middle of the front hole and fire away! Some people find or make front inserts that look like posts or crosshairs too.

That rifle is a great find! You can't buy that quality these days for 5X the price!
 
4570 said:
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you do not focus your eye on the rear sight. Focus on the front sight and target. The rear sight hole should be a fuzzy blur. Your eye will automatically centre the front sight in the rear sight peep hole (peep sights :)) have fun
Click to expand...
Unless you are as blind as I am - then you concentrate on the least fuzzy thing
( the target) and "use the force":D

Get into position, look at he target through the sights, and close you eyes momentarily - then open them.
if the target is not still centered in the front insert, move your body ( not the gun) to reposition it, then close and open your eyes again.
Once you open yopu eyes and the target is centered, start your trigger sequence.
This will go a long way to getting good groups with your Martini.
Cat
 
str8shot said:
I have similar sights on an old Mossberg .22, except the rear sight swings in from a side mount.They are the simplest sights I've ever used, just circle it, and whack it.
Scott
Click to expand...

I have two old Mossberg .22's and one has the same flip out sight your talking about.
Great rifles IMHO. I wish they put peep sights as a standard feature back on the new .22 (and other) rifles out there.

More Mossy info for yah...
http://home.epix.net/~damguy/index.html

Pardon the borrowing of the thread, tkv000. :D
 
Well I finally got it all cleaned up and had a chance to take it out to the range, now lets get one thing straight, I'm a relatively new shooter (2 years). And I'm not an iron sight guy by any means, this was run of the mill yellow jacket ammo, 50 yards, my first shots, 15 shots total, I was amazed they were all on paper let along fairly close together. I'm happy, I'll work on my breathing but I think the gun shoots just fine!

VickersMartini010.jpg


I'd like to get some good ammo (not that stingers arn't, but I'm sure theres .22 target ammo out there) any suggestions? Is Lapua any good?
 
I don't know what the run of the mill 22 long rifle cartridges are like today, but going back to the 1970s, the standard CIL "Super Clean," would group better than that. So would the standard Winchester, Remington, etc.

The ammunition referred to, shot in a match rifle, by a match rifle target shooter, would probably stay in the nine ring, or better, on that target. The small circle in the middle of that target is the X ring, used to settle ties. The next ring is the 10 ring, then the 9, etc. The worst hits on the target are sevens, which is a darn good start at getting a target, sporting rifle.

Therefore, to improve the groups think about other things, rather than the ammunition. A Mossberg is a lower priced sporting rifle, albiet a good one for the price. The bedding of a 22 rifle is very important and this is where I would start. The top target shooters of old would have their expensive 22 target rifles properly bedded by an expert at bedding, before they would even think of going to a match.

Unfortunately, the art of bedding rifles seems to be a dead, or dying art. By the way, proper bedding of the rifle does not include free floating the barrel!
Sorry if I have left you with more questions than answers, but if your rifle is not well tuned, it is a waste of money to use expensive match ammunition in it, thinking this will solve your problems.
 
tkv000 said:
Well I finally got it all cleaned up and had a chance to take it out to the range,...
Click to expand...

Don't worry- those groups will get better. Even though .22 ammo is generally pretty accurate, some rifles do seem to prefer certain brands, so a little experimentation is in order. The really classy target stuff, such as Eley and Lapua, ought to do very well, but even budget ammo can shoot well in a good rifle. I've posted these pics in other forums recently, shot from my 40 year-old CIL 310/Anschütz sporter (with a scope) using Federal American Eagle ammo:

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This is less of a credit to my marksmanship than it is to a good rifle, despite the lowly ammo I was feeding it. You're very lucky indeed to pick up one of those Martinis, esp. with the target sights. I've never owned a .22 version, although the club I learned to shoot at in the 60's had a bunch of them (I have a .310 Cadet on the small action and a .303 carbine on the larger action.) I remember seeing an advert, probably from the 1920's, for the Martini .22 target rifles where the factory claimed they would shoot 1.5" @ 100 yards, so yours will no doubt do very well once you and it are fully acquainted.

:) Stuart
 
Winchesters T22 used to be pretty good years ago when I shot target competitively with a 22. But Eley Tennex was better, but expensive.

I used a Russian built target rifle, with rear and front peeps. The peeps were changeable both front and rear, and the front inserts also had a post sight you could use if you wanted to hunt with it.

Front peep sights pretty much suck for hunting, unless you put in that post insert.
Peep and Peep kicks ass for target, but Peep and post is better for hunting.
 
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