How good is F Class

billbmcleod

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The other day at my club someone was talking about snipers and head shots at a mile and a half. I spoke up and said yes it has happened but it could not be done consistently. I stated that I once got a running jackrabbit at over 300 yards with a 22 lr but it was just luck and the last round out of a 10 rd semi.
However I really don't know what long range shooters can really do.
What kind of groups and at what ranges would be average and excellent. I realize weather conditions are a big factor.
Thanks.
 
I wouldn't want to be the guy with the 11 inch diameter head! That would be a hell of a hat! A lot of difference between 900m and a mile and a half. A rifle and shooter capable of shooting 8 inch groups at 1000 yards (on a good day, mind you), would be doing well to stay inside three feet at 2 1/2 times that far. In fact, a hit on a head-sized target at that range would be much less likely than a miss; especially a first shot hit.
 
How good is F Class?

According to the DCRA rule book, the F Class V bull is 6", and the Bull is 12" at 700, 800 and 900m.
If one was to look at the DCRA website for the results from this year's championship, once could get a pretty good idea of what is achievable.
http://www.dcra.ca/results/2018/CFRC/index.htm

For instance, for the DCRA LR CHAL III (F) match that was fired at 900m on 14 August,, there were 10 of 59 shooters who made the HPS of 15 of 15 consecutive hits in the bull (all inside of 12").
2 of these 10 where shooting FTR, so that would be a .308 Win or .223 Rem. Very good shooting with a .308, despite having sighters.

The top guy (Dwayne Draggoo) on this one match had a score of 75 with 12 Vs. So 12 of his 15 shots went into the 6" V bull.
DRAGGOO,DWAYNE,IN,USA MMXXO 75v12 5VVV5VVVV5VVVVV

Good shooting in anyone's book.

So, how good is F Class?,,, really good.
 
The US Nationals was won last month by a gentleman who shot 22 X's in a row at 1000 yards which is slightly longer than 900 meters. Under NRA rules if you shoot straight X's (20) for the relay then you keep shooting until you drop down. He shot 22 in a row!!

F-Class is very, very good!
 
Different scenarios entirely.

The guy with cam paint on his face gets one shot, less than perfect shooting positions, random distances to the meter and bugs crawling up his pant legs.
 
How good is F Class?

According to the DCRA rule book, the F Class V bull is 6", and the Bull is 12" at 700, 800 and 900m.
If one was to look at the DCRA website for the results from this year's championship, once could get a pretty good idea of what is achievable.
http://www.dcra.ca/results/2018/CFRC/index.htm

For instance, for the DCRA LR CHAL III (F) match that was fired at 900m on 14 August,, there were 10 of 59 shooters who made the HPS of 15 of 15 consecutive hits in the bull (all inside of 12").
2 of these 10 where shooting FTR, so that would be a .308 Win or .223 Rem. Very good shooting with a .308, despite having sighters.

The top guy (Dwayne Draggoo) on this one match had a score of 75 with 12 Vs. So 12 of his 15 shots went into the 6" V bull.
DRAGGOO,DWAYNE,IN,USA MMXXO 75v12 5VVV5VVVV5VVVVV

Good shooting in anyone's book.

So, how good is F Class?,,, really good.

For sure that kind of shooting is just in my dreams.
What do you mean by a "V bull"
I guess that should be enough ammo for the next scuttlebutt session.
 
What kind of groups and at what ranges would be average and excellent. I realize weather conditions are a big factor.
Average F Class competitors would probably achieve 1 MOA at 1000 yards. National and international (excellent) competitors are looking at .3 to .5 MOA, so I've heard. Reading atmospheric conditions while shooting is challenging, to say the least.
 
Not apples to apples.

Snipers are good shots, but there are studies that show that civilian marksmen are on average better shooters than snipers. Shooting is 5-10% of their job. Building hides, ingress/egress, observation, etc. make up a much larger part than just pulling the trigger.

F-class shooting is shooting at a known distance, on a square range, with wind flags and sighter shots. Sure, they are very good shooters, but completely different environment. Much different than working in varying terrain, in adverse weather conditions, at unkown distances, with the goal of making a one shot kill, or at most one shot followed up with a correction shot.

Although both are generally good shooters, it's completely different skillset.
 
Go to DCRA website and click on the "F-Class" link. The sport was invented in Canada by, and named for, "Farky" Farquharson, and was invented to allow "old guys" to stay in the long range shooting game. Prior to his invention, the same course of fire was shot with iron (aperture) sights - yes, 800, 900 and 1,000 yards with 303 British and later on 7.62 NATO. Several former competitors and at least one champion post regularly on this site.
 
The other day at my club someone was talking about snipers and head shots at a mile and a half. I spoke up and said yes it has happened but it could not be done consistently. I stated that I once got a running jackrabbit at over 300 yards with a 22 lr but it was just luck and the last round out of a 10 rd semi.
However I really don't know what long range shooters can really do.
What kind of groups and at what ranges would be average and excellent. I realize weather conditions are a big factor.
Thanks.

1.5 miles is 2,640 yards. At that range most guys consider a hit on a 4'x4' square a good shot.
Snipers do not shoot for the head as a rule. They shoot for centre of visible mass.
All the fantastic shots you read about have, most likely, been preceded by multiple ranging shots the target was probably unaware of.
 
1.5 miles is 2,640 yards. At that range most guys consider a hit on a 4'x4' square a good shot.
Snipers do not shoot for the head as a rule. They shoot for centre of visible mass.
All the fantastic shots you read about have, most likely, been preceded by multiple ranging shots the target was probably unaware of.

Some of the longer shots took many rounds to get the "Hit".

Craig Harrision who broke Rob Furlong's record took 11 rounds IIRC.

Rob Furlong took 3 rounds to get the "hit" for his record shot. First round was approx. 6' behind the target. Second round hit the target's backpack. Third round took the target out.
Rob was shooting across a valley with multiple cross winds, and using ammunition that was not the same type he normally used.
 
You do not have to go the an "F" class competition to see "good". I posted the following a while ago:

"While browsing the web, I found an NRA article here: ht tp://www.castpics.net/subsite2/ClassicWorks/NRA%20Cast%20Sup1.pdf Scroll down to page 10 and read how a Mr. James Walsh, in 1978, broke a 77 year old record of shooting 10 consecutive cast bullets into a .521" group. The previous record was set in 1901 with a 10 shot group of .727" @ 200 yards. Note that these groups were shot in "shoulder to shoulder" competition. Breech loaded cast bullet, the same brass case re-primed and re-charged over and over for the 10 shots, and all completed in 15 minutes."

Just imagine the technology that the 1901 shooter was working with!!
 
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com...0-yard-records-set-at-2018-f-class-nationals/

NRA and ICFRA LR targets share the same sizing... 5" X/V ring, 10" 10/5 ring, 20" 9/4ring, etc.

Scroll down and you can see the new FTR record score card. All those shots were fired within 27mins... likely alot less.

23 consecutive shots inside 10" at 1000yds with the wind, and in competition. 18 hitting a 5" circle. A 308win was used.

I can't find the pic of the new record F Open score card. Even more impressive as several of the sighters were X's/10's as well before going for score. 22 X's were fired in a row... the final shot was a 10 and I bet it wasn't out of the X ring by much. A 284 Shehane was the cartridge.

Ummm, 22 consecutive shots inside a 5" circle at 1000yds. That is fine shooting and fine gear.

Also, note that these guns do not have time to cool... this is string fire and all shots are fired typically, as fast as a puller can get the target scored and back up in the air... and the wind conditions hold. Typically, a good shooter and fast puller will be putting a shot downrange in 12 secs including time of flight.

how well does your rifle shoot after sending 25+ rds downrange?

Jerry
 
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