How good is good enough?

[R1200GS]

I am tuning up a new to me 308 target rifle with a 30" 1/14" barrel unknown round count. Been working on a load for the 155 Lapuas. Varget and H4895 loads have so far all shot under 1 moa 10 shot groups at 300yrds, with 46.5 of varget and the bullet jammed .015 getting consistantly under 3/4 and some as good as 1/2 moa. I know a comp. gun can never shoot too good but is this in line with the other slings & irons guns out there. Mabey I am with the 1/14" but a new barrel is not in the cards till this winter. All testing has been done off a bench with a mystic bypod and rear bag. Tuning on the driver is comming along slower

 

[Republic of Alberta]

When a gun shoots better than you it's good enough.

 

[joe-nwt]

When a gun shoots better than you it's good enough.

That's a kind of bold and maybe insulting post......

 

[cycbb486]

I can speak for the shortrange game, 100/200 yards. You better have a rifle that will shoot 1/4 min or smaller. If going to the BIG shoots, say in the US better be better than that. In terms of agging 50 shots in .250" or less preferably around a .225" at 100 and 50 in .500" or less at 200 which when converted to MOA is around a .250".

If I were to go into the long range game I would want my rifles to do that as well.

You have to remember that rifles go in and out of tune so the best way to tune would be load developing over a range of temps to find that HAPPY medium.

JMO

 

[Mystic Precision]

I am tuning up a new to me 308 target rifle with a 30" 1/14" barrel unknown round count. .... All testing has been done off a bench with a mystic bypod and rear bag. Tuning on the driver is comming along slower

I think that is your main problem. Any competition rifle in 308 today will shoot 1/2 min or under at 300yds. Any competition focused gunsmith will do this without breaking a sweat when a quality match barrel is installed.

However, if alot of rds have already been sent down your barrel, consistent accuracy falls and NEVER returns. With some powder loadings, 308 bores can start to loose peak performance in as little as 1000rds.

If you have good wind indicators and feel good about your load tuning, bullet and shooting skills BUT the rifle is irratic, get a new barrel and live happily ever after.

Being able to engrave at the throat does not tell you anything about the rest of the bore. You may very well have a barrel well past its best life.

Or that barrel may not like Lapua bullets. Try Berger 155.5gr BT or even the Hrn 155gr Amax.

BUT you have to know that you are able to shoot better then the rifle is giving you. Maybe side by side test with a known rifle of better accuracy.

Doesn't take much at the bench to be a huge out at 300yds.

If you are doing all that you can, then enjoy it for what it is and save for a new pipe.

how accurate can a TR rifle shoot? As good as an FTR rifle...

Jerry

 

[Republic of Alberta]

That's a kind of bold and maybe insulting post......

Wasn't meant to be but I'll take it.

 

[snoopycda]

When a gun shoots better than you it's good enough.

Most of the time the gun shoots better than you. You are the greatest variable when it comes to shooting.

 

[Matt_dal123]

That's a kind of bold and maybe insulting post......

Ironic that your making a post about people possibly making a insult....

 

[R1200GS]

When a gun shoots better than you it's good enough.

I have to disagree. If a shooter can hold 1moa and a gun shoots 1moa then that can result in a 2 moa group. Thats only good enough when you play by yourself, On the range with other people I need my rifle to shoot as good or better than the others because the proof is in the score for all to see. I wish I could be happy with a rifle that only shoots as good as I do, I'd have saved a lot of money over the years. I've got some 155 amax that I'll try today. I'd like to get it under 1/2 moa with a load that remains supersonic at 1000yrds. Warning shooting at organised events can be addictive & hard on the wallet

 

[tiriaq]

Is this a fullbore target rifle that you will be shooting off your elbows with a sling and irons?
If so, the rifle is capable of holding the 5 ring, and some Vs will result. Seeing as rebarrelling isn't going to happen soon, get out and shoot and learn to deal with the wind.

 

[caramel]

... It's never good enough... JP.

 

[paperslayer]

I am willing to bet the gun will shoot better with those bullet jumped, not jammed.

also, not every gun likes every bullet. try some sierra 2156's and some of the new berger 155.5's varget is a good choice.

if you are shooting TR then your vbull is basically a minute of angle. if the gun shoots under that then you are in the game but if you want to win it should be a sub half minute gun or better...assuming you can put them there.

 

[Dogleg]

Bryan Litz always seems to have something interesting to say about just about everything, and his modelling software can spit out an answer to changeing variables. Accuracy is a variable.

What I'm getting is that on average a shooter/rifle combination that can hold 1/2 MOA in windless conditions will gain 2 points out of 200 on the American F-Class target compared to the the shooter/combo that can only hold 1 MOA.

The difference between 1 MOA and 2 MOA on the iron sight target is also worth 2 points out of 200.

You could conclude that if you were 1 point away from winning the accuracy upgrade could put you over the top. Or you could read the other charts and conclude that the best man in the wind that day is going to win. Or that the FTR guys on average are going to get beat by the Open guys that have the same skill level. Or you could go shooting instead. Its a lot easier on the head.

 

[dthunter]

Shooting Gooooooood!

Not shooting? Baaaaaaaad!

Just keep it fun, thats all that matters "PERIOD." the rest is just fluff.

 

[rnbra-shooter]

When a gun shoots better than you it's good enough.

There is a lot of value to be had from taking this approach (setting the accuracy requirements of your rifle in accordance with the accuracy capabilities of the manner in which you are shooting). I would suggest that the rifle's accuracy be somewhat better than the shooter (perhaps 2X and even better 3X as good as the shooter).

A rusty SKS with a bent barrel is probably good enough to reveal the scores I am capable of shooting offhand.

If I shoot prone fullbore (iron sights and sling), I am a good enough shooter that I will be able to notice that a 2-MOA rifle is causing me to lose points. I won't be able to tell the difference between a 1/2-MOA rifle and a 1/4-MOA rifle though (both are more than accurate enough that neither will be affecting my shots to any detectable degree).

If I shoot F-Class, I will notice that a 3/4-MOA rifle is "inaccurate" to some extent and is holding me back.

how accurate can a TR rifle shoot? As good as an FTR rifle...

Very true, and a good point.

I have to disagree. If a shooter can hold 1moa and a gun shoots 1moa then that can result in a 2 moa group.

FWIW, two "independent" error sources (the rifle's grouping, and the shooter's grouping) add in a square-root-of-the-sum-of-squares manner. So a 1-MOA shooter firing a 1-MOA rifle will produce 1.41-MOA groups. The same 1-MOA shooter firing a 0.5-MOA rifle will produce 1.22-MOA groups, and with a 0.25MOA he'll get 1.12-MOA groups.

Thats only good enough when you play by yourself, On the range with other people I need my rifle to shoot as good or better than the others because the proof is in the score for all to see. I wish I could be happy with a rifle that only shoots as good as I do, I'd have saved a lot of money over the years. I've got some 155 amax that I'll try today. I'd like to get it under 1/2 moa with a load that remains supersonic at 1000yrds. Warning shooting at organised events can be addictive & hard on the wallet

The Lapua 155 is a very high quality bullet, but I have found it to be a tricky bullet to tune to shoot well. Once you have, it is as good as the very best bullets out there (after all, it is one of them).

If you can consistently get 3/4-MOA groups, to be honest that's good enough to get on with and shoot in fullbore (TR) matches.

If you want better grouping, you might try an "easy" bullet (e.g. B155.5), you might get good results sooner.

 

[maynard]

I am tuning up a new to me 308 target rifle with a 30" 1/14" barrel unknown round count. Been working on a load for the 155 Lapuas. Varget and H4895 loads have so far all shot under 1 moa 10 shot groups at 300yrds, with 46.5 of varget and the bullet jammed .015 getting consistantly under 3/4 and some as good as 1/2 moa. I know a comp. gun can never shoot too good but is this in line with the other slings & irons guns out there. Mabey I am with the 1/14" but a new barrel is not in the cards till this winter. All testing has been done off a bench with a mystic bypod and rear bag. Tuning on the driver is comming along slower

If you can put every shot into less than 1 MOA you could win a national TR championship for sure. F/TR and F Open you might win or be very close to winning a national championship, provided the 1 MOA group is centered on the target. Shooting long range is only interesting when the wind is blowing. If the wind isn't blowing, it is just a hold and squeeze game.

46.5 gr of Varget with any 155 gr bullet will be supersonic at 1000 yards.

 

[Dogleg]

Shooting long range is only interesting when the wind is blowing. If the wind isn't blowing, it is just a hold and squeeze game.

Legend has it, in the time of our forefathers, that the wind once briefly quit blowing. According to the elders half of the people west of Manitoba fell over.

 

[R1200GS]

Thanks for the insight folks. I've been getting back into TR shooting this year and gearing up with equipment. I felt my old target rifle shot pretty well with handloads about 1 moa average but combined with my current ability I was losing a few points out the corners that I hope to get now. Now that Daniel has explained the math I feel confident that I can compete and I got to buy a new gun. Now to get some elevations before the PRA and time on the elbows.