how good is the .358 Winchester?

I have owned a number of rifles chambered in .358 Win, and all of them were/are Browning BLRs IIRC. I wanted to turn a Remington 760 pump gun in .35 Rem into a .358 but decided not to spend the money for what was going to be just a novelty.

.358 Win is a great cartridge, and I think the advice offered so far about shooting medium sized game out to about 250 yards is good advice.

But if this is to be a first big game rifle, and if it is going to be fed factory ammo, the BEST advice offered here has been to go to a rifle chambered for a more popular cartridge. Like the .30-06, which I persoanlly do not favour, but which is one of the best all-round cartridges in the history of hunting rifles.

More free advice, worth what you paid for it..........;)

Doug
 
X2 what Doug says. I like the idea of the 358, but I'm concerned that I'd like thinking about owning one more than I'd like owning one. If you handload, no problem. If you don't handload...$$$$ problem. For a first rifle, stick with a 308 or 30-06.
 
Start with a 308 win and save your brass. Then when you buy a 358win and start handloading, you will have brass you can use. 308 brass easily necks up to 358 and is very easy to find. Okay, that's what I did anyway.:)

I am on my second 358 and I love it - stainless Ruger Hawkeye.:cool:
 
From a 1962 article entitled Deer and Deer Rifles, Jack O'Conner (Mr 270 himself) writes that he
"... regards the neglected and obsolescent .358 Winchester cartridge with its 200-grain bullet at 2,530 or its 250-grain bullet at 2,250 as probably the most deadly woods cartridge in existence, not only for deer but for elk and even moose. The .358 has the power and weight to drive deep on the rear-end shot, which the woods hunter all too often has to take."
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Apart from the rear-end shot thing (I mean about "having to" take that shot), I am inclined to agree with him that it is a superb big game cartridge. I hunt with 358Wins and like em. Had two out shooting today - a BLR and a Ruger77.
Read O'Conner's whole article here - outdoorlife.com/outdoor/adventure/article/0,19912,638898,00.html

And Stanway and others above give good advice above I think. Handloading is a given nowadays with the 358.
 
I've got a Savage model 99R in 358 that I still haven't taken a shot out of yet. The Redfield 2-7X is still not mounted either but from the views of some of the guys here I'm gonna be gettin at er soon.
 
Hey MadDog - three nice 99s in 358 on gunbroker right now. Several look pretty pristine. Always wanted one. Someday maybe.
 
MadDog said:
I've got a Savage model 99R in 358 that I still haven't taken a shot out of yet. The Redfield 2-7X is still not mounted either but from the views of some of the guys here I'm gonna be gettin at er soon.
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Shame on you! Rifle you have not shot! Shame! :D

Me, and rifle I get is fired within the week, unless it's for parts, and a few of those have ended up shooters.

I don't own a 358 at this point, one of those cartridges I've not got around to yet.
 
Well I had a 358 for several years in the Arctic and Northern Saskatchewan and I was very disappointed with it. In almost every respect the 308 Win was better.

First of all most .358 spitzer bullets are more heavily jacketed than their 30 caliber cousins and expansion is reduced. On caribou the 308 with most any 150 and 165 grain bullets is a very quick killer. I remember my first caribou shot with the 358 at about 45 yards with a 200 grain Hornady through both lungs. The animal ran 80 yards disappearing behind a ridge and I thought I'd missed it. This I learned was typical of the 358 and at long ranges when velocity evaporated the dang thing got worse.

On seals where you need a quick fast expanding impact to anchor them the 358 was brutal. I lost a lot of well hit seals sliding down their holes.

It was reliable but not impressive on 300 pound animals. Sort of like an over-grown 30-30. The 308 on the other had was impressive. It was only on Arctic Hare that the 358 was preferable as at past 100 yards I could get minimal meat damage. On larger game the 358 would have been reliable but with the right bullets so is the 308.

I also couldn't hit the velocities that some reloaders have within what I judged to be reasonable pressures. The 225 Nosler Partition and it's balance of good expansion and penetration almost redeemed it but when I got a 350 Rem Mag with a 150-200ft/sec advantage I noticed such an immediate improvement in killing power That I sold the 358 and never looked back.

I will say though that my 358 was very accurate. Many sub MOA targets from it's rebored 20" Rem Barrel.
 
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Whelen B said:
Hey MadDog - three nice 99s in 358 on gunbroker right now. Several look pretty pristine. Always wanted one. Someday maybe.
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1: They're all post-mils unlike the nice pre-mil 358's like my R.

2: By the time you go through the problems and B.S. involved with actually buying a gun on an auction site in the U.S. it's probably cheaper to just go buy the 99-358 in the EE right now.:D
 
Mr. Friendly said:
I'm just putting feelers out for what I would want as my first big game rifle. I know the 30.06 is the kill all multi-talented cartridge...but as I've read a few times in some publications (darn I wish I could remember the author currently) they say that while placement of the shot is what's critical, if the cartridge gives you the courage and assurance you need, use it. I don't want something too big to make me cocky and risk any shots, but I don't want anything that's too anemic to let me have the confidence for a difficult shot.

on the plus side, I have a friend who says he has a 30.06 he'd sell me for cheap now that he's upgraded his main rifle from it to something else (don't remember what tho...).

edit - a question about flat trajectories. I hear the .308 has a very flat trajectory. what about the .303 British, 30.06 and these .338 Federal and .358 Winchesters? how flat or curved are their trajectories?
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I have had .308, '06, and 338 wm for hunting around BC and got rid of the middleman by sellig the '06. All are good BC calibers. That being said I think the '06 is your answer for a first rifle where you live. Do you like your friend's rifle ? If so , so much the better. What is he going to give you with it ... dies ,etc, etc . The '06 is great to reload , shoots the bigger 30cal bullets a bit better than .308 without compressing the crap out of the loads. Its just clean and simple, easy to get ammo , no surprises. Deer , moose, bears or coyotes it kills them all. It shoots plenty flat.

When you reload it will be nice to walk into the store and see your components in stock instead of waiting to order in.

Get fancy with your second rifle
 
338 Fed

I thought the issue with the 338 Fed was reloaders ability to attain the velocities posted by Federal. The velocities were not achievable, because Federal would not release the powder being used or the mix of powders being used.

I heard handloaders(me included) could not get the expected velocity, making them disappointed and dumping their guns. Accuracy has nothing to do with it...

I am not sure if there is any truth to this at all. I have not reviewed any brand new reloading data manuals to see what loads they recommend...just what I heard.

Cheers

Sask Hunter
 
I honestly have no clue what the '06 my friend has moved on from is...I haven't talked to him for some time. I probably should again, eh? LOL!

I know the '06 is the done it all caliber, so I have no complaints about it. I am curious about the .270 tho...especially with the reading I've done on the TSX, TTSX threads made by Gatehouse.

as people have no doubt seen, I'm curious about the Marlin XL7 too which happens to come in .25-06, which I don't know anything about as well as the .270 and '06. if I had the money, being the rifles are so cheap, I'd order all 3 of em just to try em out and see what they were like! :D

as for handloading...not sure if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but it's something I do wish to entertain. my friend mentioned doesn't handload...he's pretty much a hunter only type firearms owner. goes out to a range, sights his gun in for the trip and goes...doesn't handload or shoot much extra.

he's older and experienced and knows how to shoot. I on the other hand don't know how to shoot, so I wish to learn how to shoot. fortunately for me, my brother is getting a lever .22 and a lever .308...so I can get some practice there. I have a deal on a .223 and possibly that mentioned '06...plus I do wish to buy a shotgun or two, too! LOL.

thanks for all the posts guys...a lot of food for thought. :D
 
Takujualuk said:
Well I had a 358 for several years in the Arctic and Northern Saskatchewan and I was very disappointed with it. In almost every respect the 308 Win was better.

First of all most .358 spitzer bullets are more heavily jacketed than their 30 caliber cousins and expansion is reduced. On caribou the 308 with most any 150 and 165 grain bullets is a very quick killer. I remember my first caribou shot with the 358 at about 45 yards with a 200 grain Hornady through both lungs. The animal ran 80 yards disappearing behind a ridge and I thought I'd missed it. This I learned was typical of the 358 and at long ranges when velocity evaporated the dang thing got worse.

On seals where you need a quick fast expanding impact to anchor them the 358 was brutal. I lost a lot of well hit seals sliding down their holes.

It was reliable but not impressive on 300 pound animals. Sort of like an over-grown 30-30. The 308 on the other had was impressive. It was only on Arctic Hare that the 358 was preferable as at past 100 yards I could get minimal meat damage. On larger game the 358 would have been reliable but with the right bullets so is the 308.

I also couldn't hit the velocities that some reloaders have within what I judged to be reasonable pressures. The 225 Nosler Partition and it's balance of good expansion and penetration almost redeemed it but when I got a 350 Rem Mag with a 150-200ft/sec advantage I noticed such an immediate improvement in killing power That I sold the 358 and never looked back.

I will say though that my 358 was very accurate. Many sub MOA targets from it's rebored 20" Rem Barrel.
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Interesting post. I have killed lots of game with the 358 and was only disapointed with it when a blacktail buck shot with a 250 Hornady RN went quite a ways before tipping over. It had the same effect as you experienced on caribou/seals. The 200 silvertips on the other hand, have worked great on a variety of big game including moose.
Did you ever try the hornady 180 gr pistol bullet? This bullet seems to expand readily, going to try it on deer this year. All in all, the 358 has been a useful, versitile and accurate cartridge.
 
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Sask Hunter said:
I thought the issue with the 338 Fed was reloaders ability to attain the velocities posted by Federal. The velocities were not achievable, because Federal would not release the powder being used or the mix of powders being used.

I heard handloaders(me included) could not get the expected velocity, making them disappointed and dumping their guns. Accuracy has nothing to do with it...

I am not sure if there is any truth to this at all. I have not reviewed any brand new reloading data manuals to see what loads they recommend...just what I heard.
Click to expand...

Personally I have found with H4895 I can push a 210 gr @ 2625 fps, a 215 gr @ 2610 fps, and 250 grain @ 2320 fps. I havent tried much for lighter stuff yet but I dont think I will have any trouble pushing a 180 grain Accubond to 2800+ fps :)
 
About this good.
Nov08buckrd008_r3.jpg


200gr. Hornady SP.

Picture009.jpg

225gr. Sierra BT

Here is a selection of bullets available (no where definative)
Bigns.jpg

L-R Remington Bulk 200gr., Hornady 200gr. SP., Sierra 225gr. BT, Nosler 225gr. Partition.
 
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