How is your 9mm group at 25 yard?

meterus

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Hi,
I have a sig mk25 9mm. It is my first handgun. I have shot about 500 rds so far. At the 25 yard distance(only 25 yard in our handgun range), 5~6 inchs group is the best I can do, and it seems I am not able to improve any more. How is your best group at 25 yard? I just want to know how far I am from a good shooter. Thanks.
 
I shoot about the same with my Ruger SR9, but then it's not known for tight groups. Try resting your pistol on sand bags and shooting carefully to
see what your pistol is capable of shooting, then you know what it COULD do if your part is perfect...
 
If I take my time I can get ~4 inch groups with my Sig's... but there is always that one flyer when I get to the last couple rounds, me psyching myself out and flinching... which means the target goes in the trash bin instead of on the wall in my garage.

Edit:
This is for two handed unsupported shooting.

And taking your time for good grouping at any distance does not mean you are a good shooter. Doing it under stress, like with someone shooting back at you, makes you a good shooter. Play that scenario in your head and try to get a good grouping ;)
 
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I've shot under 2" the odd time with my Hi Power - when I don't flinch or fly - and in excellent light so I can actually see the sights. This is the same pistol that I really had to have my act together to keep all the shots on target when I first got it; it shotgunned the target, and it took me the longest time and a lot of skullsweat to figure-out what I was doing wrong.

The first thing is, I had to fit the bullet to the bore. It slugs-out to 0.357" so I wanted a 0.358" bullet to feed it; but that bullet-width plus the thickness of the cartridge walls, made the round too fat to chamber. The only bullet I could cast was the Lee 125gr RF; the others weren't quite 0.358" out of the mould. In the end, I had to stop using Winchester brass because it's the best 9mm brass out there - the walls were too thick - and getting a mag-full that didn't have at least one FTF jammed in the chamber was a rare and wonderful thing.

I tried one bullet I'd rejected before; the Lyman 147gr BB 2RF. I love this bullet - the 4-cavity iron mould is delightful to use, and I frequently have perfect bullets from the first pour, but neither of our 9mm's liked that bullet. I started using it again because it mikes-out at ~0.3575", and just that little bit of difference was enough to make it easier to load with fewer FTF's. But very inaccurate; shotgunned the target. Then I realized something (I have no brain - my skull is solid bone, and it takes a long time for realizations to sink-in ;) - I was getting 2 or 3 keyholes per 10 rounds with that bullet.

Well, why is it keyholing? - because clearly, the pistol is not spinning it fast enough to stabilize in flight, so it topples. Short of ordering a new barrel with a faster twist (and good luck getting it across the border), the only way I could spin it faster was to push it down the barrel faster. So I added a pinch more powder - literally, 0.1 grain - and the pistol immediately started showing-off; that was my 2" (from 20 yds, in bright sunlight) group.

If you are buying your ammo, there's not a lot you can do to improve its performance; I would suggest you try and get it into bright sunlight where your vision is the best it can be, and concentrate on your sight picture. The sights on my 'classic' Hi Power are about as bad as sights can be, with rounded sides front and back (lots of glare off them), adjuster screws that love to back themselves off randomly and a short sight picture because the pistol isn't very big. If you are handloading, try moving your bullets faster (WITHOUT exceeding safe powder loads, natch) or slower (especially if you're getting lead fouling), and experiment with your C.O.A.L. 9mm is a finicky round to reload; attention to detail might yield big results.

Best of luck!
 
Since you have steyr and glock at same time. Can you say something about these two guns? Which one do you like better? I am thinking of a striker fire pistol.

I've had both (got out of strikers as I just prefer DA/SA):

Steyr is designed and built considerably better, and is a more accurate overall shooter. Low bore axis = low recoil. Triangle sights are cool too!

Make sure any M9 you are considering has the updated extractor installed (a free upgrade from Steyr back when it was an issue). It's obvious as it has a raised loaded-chamber indicator as part of it. All L9's are good to go in this respect, as are any new M9's. For Steyr search for "BT steel guide rod" and get that + his delrin striker bushings + grip plug. That's all the aftermarket parts available, and very worth getting.

Now is where the tables turn abrubtly; Glock takes the win for both factory and aftermarket parts availability, magazines included. You can trick out a glock much like a 1911... there is no limit!

So in the end after spending more on the glock than you paid for it initially, it'll most likely be the better shooter. But out of the box I vote Steyr.

PS:
Take a Walther PPQ Navy for a test drive... best out of the box striker trigger on the planet!
 
I've had both (got out of strikers as I just prefer DA/SA):

Steyr is designed and built considerably better, and is a more accurate overall shooter. Low bore axis = low recoil. Triangle sights are cool too!

Make sure any M9 you are considering has the updated extractor installed (a free upgrade from Steyr back when it was an issue). It's obvious as it has a raised loaded-chamber indicator as part of it. All L9's are good to go in this respect, as are any new M9's. For Steyr search for "BT steel guide rod" and get that + his delrin striker bushings + grip plug. That's all the aftermarket parts available, and very worth getting.

Now is where the tables turn abrubtly; Glock takes the win for both factory and aftermarket parts availability, magazines included. You can trick out a glock much like a 1911... there is no limit!

So in the end after spending more on the glock than you paid for it initially, it'll most likely be the better shooter. But out of the box I vote Steyr.

PS:
Take a Walther PPQ Navy for a test drive... best out of the box striker trigger on the planet!
Very clear! Thanks
 
My nines run around 3", shooting two-handed. Most are Norincos.

I shoot each gun with a range of powder charges and note the load that got the best results.

It takes time, practice and coaching, so you are practicing a good technique. After about 30 years of steady practice, I got fairly good. I used to score in the high 90's on the bullseye target, shooting a 22.

A 22 is the best way to learn the basics of sight picture and a good trigger press.

NZ75135.jpg


9mmNORCAFTER-1.jpg


19119mm.jpg


pistoltest1.jpg


NORINCO1911TARGET1.jpg


CZ75BGROUP2.jpg


TARIQFIRSTTRGT-1.jpg
 
I've shot under 2" the odd time with my Hi Power - when I don't flinch or fly - and in excellent light so I can actually see the sights. This is the same pistol that I really had to have my act together to keep all the shots on target when I first got it; it shotgunned the target, and it took me the longest time and a lot of skullsweat to figure-out what I was doing wrong.

The first thing is, I had to fit the bullet to the bore. It slugs-out to 0.357" so I wanted a 0.358" bullet to feed it; but that bullet-width plus the thickness of the cartridge walls, made the round too fat to chamber. The only bullet I could cast was the Lee 125gr RF; the others weren't quite 0.358" out of the mould. In the end, I had to stop using Winchester brass because it's the best 9mm brass out there - the walls were too thick - and getting a mag-full that didn't have at least one FTF jammed in the chamber was a rare and wonderful thing.

I tried one bullet I'd rejected before; the Lyman 147gr BB 2RF. I love this bullet - the 4-cavity iron mould is delightful to use, and I frequently have perfect bullets from the first pour, but neither of our 9mm's liked that bullet. I started using it again because it mikes-out at ~0.3575", and just that little bit of difference was enough to make it easier to load with fewer FTF's. But very inaccurate; shotgunned the target. Then I realized something (I have no brain - my skull is solid bone, and it takes a long time for realizations to sink-in ;) - I was getting 2 or 3 keyholes per 10 rounds with that bullet.

Well, why is it keyholing? - because clearly, the pistol is not spinning it fast enough to stabilize in flight, so it topples. Short of ordering a new barrel with a faster twist (and good luck getting it across the border), the only way I could spin it faster was to push it down the barrel faster. So I added a pinch more powder - literally, 0.1 grain - and the pistol immediately started showing-off; that was my 2" (from 20 yds, in bright sunlight) group.

If you are buying your ammo, there's not a lot you can do to improve its performance; I would suggest you try and get it into bright sunlight where your vision is the best it can be, and concentrate on your sight picture. The sights on my 'classic' Hi Power are about as bad as sights can be, with rounded sides front and back (lots of glare off them), adjuster screws that love to back themselves off randomly and a short sight picture because the pistol isn't very big. If you are handloading, try moving your bullets faster (WITHOUT exceeding safe powder loads, natch) or slower (especially if you're getting lead fouling), and experiment with your C.O.A.L. 9mm is a finicky round to reload; attention to detail might yield big results.

Best of luck!
Spent some time to study your reply. A lot of useful information. Thanks
 
So are you guys talking freestyle shooting (two hand unsupported). Or benched shooting? How many rounds?

You have to have a to post your metric or it makes for some very ambiguous data.
 
So are you guys talking freestyle shooting (two hand unsupported). Or benched shooting? How many rounds?

You have to have a to post your metric or it makes for some very ambiguous data.
 
With my Glock 17 (most accurate 9mm Ive EVER owned) they were closed fist size groupings firing in standing combat stance at a moderate speed, maybe a round every 1.5 seconds.

50 yard bench rest, 10 round magazine inside a standard size piece of writting paper, with relative ease.

Glock 17 3rd gen standard sights. Sold it many years ago....but was the best 9X19 Ive ever owned ;)

Glock Perfection.
 
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