I am building a 280ai rem 700. I got a 24" stainless barrel no muzzle break on it. I am looking at stocks for it. A bell and Carelson is about 1.8-2.2 lb. Is it worth to spend double the money on a stock that is 1-1.3lb. Also if you have one of the lighter stocks how do they feel to shoot?
HOW LIGHT IS TOO LIGHT?
- Thread starter patrickb41
- Start date
Hand Skills
CGN Regular
- Location
- In the 'heartland', southern SK
Hey Patrick,
There is no such thing as 'too light' when it comes to CARRYING a rifle.
When it comes to SHOOTING a rifle, weight adds stability and soaks up recoil allowing for more precision.
I went down the ultralight path a number of years ago, and there is a point where they become difficult for me to shoot well.
Some of this can be tamed with careful weight distribution, but shooting ULTRALIGHT rifles off-hand is quite an art form, and here physical fitness plays a bigger role than anyone wants to admit.
My comfort zone these days is;
7lb rifle - 300yd and in
8lb rifle - 400yd and in
9lb rifle - 500yd and in
If you've already got the barrel, get it spun up and start breaking it in with the stock you have..
Only YOU can answer the question.
I have had a couple of the Wildcat Ultralight stocks, and they are very rigid and great to shoot but these days I don't mind paying a bit of a weight penalty for better ergos. The Felso BH-1 comes in a little heavier, but the wider forend makes it easier to grip and more stable on a front rest. The way the palm swell flows into the thumb shelf is poetry. The negative comb reduces felt recoil and makes it easier to spot trace/impact and the toe line along bottom of the stock is a lot more shallow which I find much more 'rear rest friendly'. I really don't mind the extra 6 or 8 ounces, because the ergos help make my job as a driver easier. The stock plays a large part in how 'forgiving' a rifle is to shoot!
For what it's worth, from one nut to another
There is no such thing as 'too light' when it comes to CARRYING a rifle.
When it comes to SHOOTING a rifle, weight adds stability and soaks up recoil allowing for more precision.
I went down the ultralight path a number of years ago, and there is a point where they become difficult for me to shoot well.
Some of this can be tamed with careful weight distribution, but shooting ULTRALIGHT rifles off-hand is quite an art form, and here physical fitness plays a bigger role than anyone wants to admit.
My comfort zone these days is;
7lb rifle - 300yd and in
8lb rifle - 400yd and in
9lb rifle - 500yd and in
If you've already got the barrel, get it spun up and start breaking it in with the stock you have..
Only YOU can answer the question.
I have had a couple of the Wildcat Ultralight stocks, and they are very rigid and great to shoot but these days I don't mind paying a bit of a weight penalty for better ergos. The Felso BH-1 comes in a little heavier, but the wider forend makes it easier to grip and more stable on a front rest. The way the palm swell flows into the thumb shelf is poetry. The negative comb reduces felt recoil and makes it easier to spot trace/impact and the toe line along bottom of the stock is a lot more shallow which I find much more 'rear rest friendly'. I really don't mind the extra 6 or 8 ounces, because the ergos help make my job as a driver easier. The stock plays a large part in how 'forgiving' a rifle is to shoot!
For what it's worth, from one nut to another
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Shaving ounces is all part of the recipe , you have to consider the sum of the whole build.
Shaving ounces on the stock only to add a (examples only) a muzzle brake or a longer barrel only to add steel rings , steel picitiniy rail and a 50 mm objective equipped scope (extreme examples) doesnt make sense.
So, start writing down your wants and needs and start from there.
Just some random thoughts tossed out there.
Rob
Patrick, not dissing you, but unless the person answering your query weighs exactly what you weigh, is the same height, has the same neck length, and trigger pull length, your query is not going to get you meaningful results.
You need to ask "why a light firearm is needed" before anything else. A pound one way or the other isn't going to make enough difference in weight, other than increasing or decreasing a bit of felt recoil.
Are you packing this rifle up mountains, with a heavy pack on your back?
Light rifles tend to have ho hum balance IMHO.
Keep your rifle within 8-10 pounds, and all will be well.
You need to ask "why a light firearm is needed" before anything else. A pound one way or the other isn't going to make enough difference in weight, other than increasing or decreasing a bit of felt recoil.
Are you packing this rifle up mountains, with a heavy pack on your back?
Light rifles tend to have ho hum balance IMHO.
Keep your rifle within 8-10 pounds, and all will be well.
- Location
- Kamloops, B.C.
Another thing that comes into play with ultralight rifles (I learned allot more in depth about this from Mike from Alpine Riflecraft) is the centre of gravity and how it balances. An he builds some sub 5lb rifles so the guy knows his stuff!
islandhunter
CGN Regular
- Location
- princeton b.c.
I say go as light as you can, much nicer to carry. I have a few kimbers that are under 6 lbs scoped and am comfortable shooting them to 500 yards
Bustercluck
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort McMurray
I totally agree and I think this is where lots of boutique rifles miss the mark. They try and cut as much weight out of the barrel they can by fluting a #1. I shot a few lightweight 280 ackleys and 6.5s and they all bucked really bad. I have two rifles now and both have #2 benhcmarks (24” long) with a brake and weigh between 5.5-6 pounds, 7-7.5 scoped.
I’m really happy with the setup I have now, but it took some buying, selling and asking guys at the range to check out their gear.
Really, when it comes down to it there’s far easier ways to cut weight out of your pack than handicapping your shooting platform.
Big bore dinosaur
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NORT OF COW.TOWN.EH
ultra light rifle = more snacks in the pack
Spendy sport this sheep game is young jedi..
Spendy sport this sheep game is young jedi..
As everyone seems to agree, there's a point of diminishing returns going light. Maybe not when you're dragging yourself up a mountain, but definitely when it comes time to take the shot that got you going up that mountain in the first place.
That's the demising returns part of the argument. Then there's the sanity part.
Many years ago on a hunt with Alaskan guide Jake Jefferson, we had our grizzly down early and were waiting in camp for the float plane to come fetch us. While passing the time, Jake offered to let me try a shot with his guide gun. It was one of the very early Ultralight Arms bolt actions. No scope, just peep sights -- and as I recall, it weighed in at something like 4-1/4 pounds. It hardly felt like a rifle at all -- more like a wand.
We had camped on the shore of a small body of water just big enough to get a float plane to land and take off. It was maybe 200 yards to the other side, and on the far shore was a boulder around 24" across. I shouldered the rifle offhand, squeezed carefully and ...
Jake was impressed, he told me afterwards -- the shot was a good one and I had hit the rock dead centre. I neither knew nor cared. All I was really aware of is that I had never, ever been hit that hard. And with certainty, I knew that I never wanted to be hit that hard again.
And thus it was that I got to experience what a full house load shooting a 400 grain bullet out of a .416 Remington Magnum feels like from a 4 pound rifle.
Never again.
That's the demising returns part of the argument. Then there's the sanity part.
Many years ago on a hunt with Alaskan guide Jake Jefferson, we had our grizzly down early and were waiting in camp for the float plane to come fetch us. While passing the time, Jake offered to let me try a shot with his guide gun. It was one of the very early Ultralight Arms bolt actions. No scope, just peep sights -- and as I recall, it weighed in at something like 4-1/4 pounds. It hardly felt like a rifle at all -- more like a wand.
We had camped on the shore of a small body of water just big enough to get a float plane to land and take off. It was maybe 200 yards to the other side, and on the far shore was a boulder around 24" across. I shouldered the rifle offhand, squeezed carefully and ...
Jake was impressed, he told me afterwards -- the shot was a good one and I had hit the rock dead centre. I neither knew nor cared. All I was really aware of is that I had never, ever been hit that hard. And with certainty, I knew that I never wanted to be hit that hard again.
And thus it was that I got to experience what a full house load shooting a 400 grain bullet out of a .416 Remington Magnum feels like from a 4 pound rifle.
Never again.
Hand Skills
CGN Regular
- Location
- In the 'heartland', southern SK
yowzers!!Shooting offhand this is as light as I would want. Off a rest or from the bench I don’t think it matter much. It’s not the recoil that’s the issue but holding it steady ain’t easy. 7.5 to 9 pounds is the sweet spot for offhand shooting for me.
Rifle shown is a classic select in 257 Roberts with a leupold vx 2 2-7x 33.
Rifle shown is a classic select in 257 Roberts with a leupold vx 2 2-7x 33.
Attachments
I find if the rifle is much under 7 pounds, it has to be quite short, otherwise it just doesn't swing, aim, or hold right. Bring that center of gravity back a bit seems to help. I have no problem with rifle under 6lbs if they are sporting a super short barrel.
But for the most part I do agree, shooting offhand between that 7-9 lbs with most rifles is about right.
But for the most part I do agree, shooting offhand between that 7-9 lbs with most rifles is about right.
I didn’t know you’d hunted with Jake. A couple of us did a grizzly hunt with him in I want to say 2012. The guy was a wizard with a Havilon knife. His .416 was in the sick list at the time, I think someone backed over it or something.As everyone seems to agree, there's a point of diminishing returns going light. Maybe not when you're dragging yourself up a mountain, but definitely when it comes time to take the shot that got you going up that mountain in the first place.
That's the demising returns part of the argument. Then there's the sanity part.
Many years ago on a hunt with Alaskan guide Jake Jefferson, we had our grizzly down early and were waiting in camp for the float plane to come fetch us. While passing the time, Jake offered to let me try a shot with his guide gun. It was one of the very early Ultralight Arms bolt actions. No scope, just peep sights -- and as I recall, it weighed in at something like 4-1/4 pounds. It hardly felt like a rifle at all -- more like a wand.
We had camped on the shore of a small body of water just big enough to get a float plane to land and take off. It was maybe 200 yards to the other side, and on the far shore was a boulder around 24" across. I shouldered the rifle offhand, squeezed carefully and ...
Jake was impressed, he told me afterwards -- the shot was a good one and I had hit the rock dead centre. I neither knew nor cared. All I was really aware of is that I had never, ever been hit that hard. And with certainty, I knew that I never wanted to be hit that hard again.
And thus it was that I got to experience what a full house load shooting a 400 grain bullet out of a .416 Remington Magnum feels like from a 4 pound rifle.
Never again.
In the odd way that things work out we were all carrying 338 Wins on that hunt; Jake with a ruger that won’t ####, my friend with his Old Browning Stainless Stalker LH because he uses that for everything including a walking stick and a canoe paddle and I was using my Kimber. Just rebarrelled it about a month ago, shot it out.
Back to the topic; my lightest rifle right now is a PGW M18 Titanium in 7 STW. Weighs a whopping 5.5 pounds without a 4.5-14 Leupold on it. Not bad for a magnum length action. It had a brake on it until I took it off. Too loud, I’d rather get kicked than have my eardrums shattered.
Light rifles are funny; they might be whippy but some aren’t. Some heavy rifles are clumsy and some aren’t. Some feel light and lively. Its very much a case by case kind of thing.
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Yeah, I was just a bit before you -- I did that hunt in 2009. And yes, watching him skin out and flesh a grizzly hide with that knife was a thing to behold, much like watching a master sushi chef go to work with a hand forged Japanese yanagiba. It really was a thing to behold.
Sorry for the thread hijack. Back to light rifle discussion gentlemen
I have a Custom 280AI With a Wild Cat stk 24 “ weights 7 lbs 6 oz and it’s pretty Barky .
