Again, generally speaking, if you heat cured epoxy it will soften and then eventually cure again at the higher temp. There is a limit to this of course. In aircraft work they often use prepreg materials, they are for example carbon fibre fabric impregnated with a high temp cure epoxy. They are laid up when sticky, vacuum bagged and into an autoclave to cure, just as teenahlake says. If you use about 50 degrees C for this stuff you will be in a good zone. I don't like using heat lamps on the action as they will heat mainly the action. A warm spot to put the whole gun is good if not too hot at this stage. Also think how hot it will get out in the summer sun after a bit of rapid.
how long to let arca glass gel to set????
- Thread starter stevesummit
- Start date
The Forslunds used a cabinet with a light bulb as a heat source to speed curing IIRC. I don't recall what compound they liked but it was some sort of industrial epoxy.
I have never liked the Acraglas gel. I first tried it in the late seventies. They changed the formula and I tried it again in the eighties and didn't like it any better. It is too soft, too slow, and degrades in the presence of Hoppes #9. I do use the gel when trying to bed one of the plastic stocks (an exercise in futility IMO) where it's fexibility might be an asset.
With just a little more experience, Ian should get a pretty good handle on epoxy use (ha ha ha!). Regards, Bill.
I have never liked the Acraglas gel. I first tried it in the late seventies. They changed the formula and I tried it again in the eighties and didn't like it any better. It is too soft, too slow, and degrades in the presence of Hoppes #9. I do use the gel when trying to bed one of the plastic stocks (an exercise in futility IMO) where it's fexibility might be an asset.
With just a little more experience, Ian should get a pretty good handle on epoxy use (ha ha ha!). Regards, Bill.
Light bulbs are a great heat source. I store some epoxies in a box heated this way. Just wire a couple of bulbs to an electric heat thermostat and keep a thermometer in the box to get a real idea of the temp. Use two bulbs so that when one burns out you will still have heat, 40w bulbs are usually enough. I don't use Acraglass either and have not used it in years. This stuff is not magic and just about any compound will work fine. If I was not lazy I would just compound my own bedding using the epoxy we build stocks with. In the mean time I use Marine Tex which I buy in large cans form a wholesaler at a still outrageous price compared to buying a drum!
Bill, I am at the point where I think I know just enough to be dangerous!
Bill, I am at the point where I think I know just enough to be dangerous!
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
I've only ever bedded one rifle and we used G2 epoxy from Lee Valley (it's what the Old Man had on hand - he uses it for knifemaking). bonus is it is useable at low temperatures (10C minumim) but it has a 48 hour cure time at 20C and 24 hours at 20C.
It's probably not the ideal stuff to use as it isn't super hard. But for what we were doing (bedding an iron-sighted Mauser hunting rifle) we weren't looking for match performance. For future projects I would plan ahead and use something more gun-oriented.
Hey Ian, are you going to update prices on your site for 2009?
It's probably not the ideal stuff to use as it isn't super hard. But for what we were doing (bedding an iron-sighted Mauser hunting rifle) we weren't looking for match performance. For future projects I would plan ahead and use something more gun-oriented.
Hey Ian, are you going to update prices on your site for 2009?
Prices went up March 1 and the new list is up. G2 is excellent stuff and will do a good bedding job for any gun. It is straight epoxy though and you need to add some filler to it to make it better for the job. If you took the epoxy (without the filler) out of Devcon or any of these it would look much like G2. From Lee Valleys catalogue, use some West 403 or 404 for strength and then add a bit of 406 to control flow (thixotropy) and you have as good a bedding as any.
"With just a little more experience, Ian should get a pretty good handle on epoxy use"
I love it... as usual Bill you have a good way with words...
But jeez Bill and Ian you guys are scaring me...
I still use Acraglas and the gel too ... I have never thought of it as being that much better or worse than anything else. It's just that I am so used to it.
I did not know that Hoppes would affect the gel. I have never seen any results of that but I guess if you know that it would be easy to avoid. I know there are harder epoxies than the gel but the leftover gel on a piece of paper when it has set, will break with a snap when forced.
I don't know if there is a benefit to a harder epoxy in bedding guns. I know it is a real pain for alterations after it has cured.
I use a couple of light bulbs on each side of the stock to keep it warmer than room temperature when an action is being bedded. It sets up in about 2 hours or so... firm enough that I can pull it apart and clean up some excess with a chisel and then put the metal back in with the screws very lightly done and let it sit over night. Then it is hard enough that it chips if you try and chisel it... cures for shooting within 3 days...
I love it... as usual Bill you have a good way with words...
But jeez Bill and Ian you guys are scaring me...
I still use Acraglas and the gel too ... I have never thought of it as being that much better or worse than anything else. It's just that I am so used to it.
I did not know that Hoppes would affect the gel. I have never seen any results of that but I guess if you know that it would be easy to avoid. I know there are harder epoxies than the gel but the leftover gel on a piece of paper when it has set, will break with a snap when forced.
I don't know if there is a benefit to a harder epoxy in bedding guns. I know it is a real pain for alterations after it has cured.
I use a couple of light bulbs on each side of the stock to keep it warmer than room temperature when an action is being bedded. It sets up in about 2 hours or so... firm enough that I can pull it apart and clean up some excess with a chisel and then put the metal back in with the screws very lightly done and let it sit over night. Then it is hard enough that it chips if you try and chisel it... cures for shooting within 3 days...
I am sure a good job done with Acraglass is as good as any. The titanium stuff is not justified. Have a look at the compressive strength of all of these and you will not see too much difference. For example the compressive strength of Marine Tex is 13,000 psi and Devcon Titanium is 18,800 psi. Assume the recoil lug is only .5" x 1". With Marine Tex it can take a load of 6,500 pounds. Not sure which gun would inflict this kind of pain on my shoulder??
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Could you please tell me more about the Hoppes #9 and Gel issue -- I use both alot
How much degrading occurs- fast or slowly over years?
What about using Brownels dark clored ..whatever the metal filler... my mind just blanked... type of gel bedding -- is that affected as well?
How much degrading occurs- fast or slowly over years?
What about using Brownels dark clored ..whatever the metal filler... my mind just blanked... type of gel bedding -- is that affected as well?
I am doing a test right now with Hoppes #9 and some cured Acraglas gel. I will post results later.
I am not concerned in actual use as I don't wash my bedding with Hoppes #9 and I use a bore guide when cleaning my rifle... and now that I am aware of a possible problem it is even easier to not have a problem.
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
Now I feel even smarter. We did use the glass from a very old Acra Glas kit that the Old Man had sitting around. We decided against using the old epoxy, not for any good reason, but we didn't want to take a chance on old material. Probably would have worked just fine though.
Sage advice!
The degradation takes place over a surprisingly short period of time. Now, I have to mention, I last tested this when Hoppes was made with nitrobenzene which may well have been the agent which attacked the gel. Devcon Plastic steel also suffered from contact with Hoppes and was, in fact, the most affected. The original Acraglas (red box) was unaffected.
I once used Devcon Steel to fill in the magazine cutout in a light varmint rifle I made for myself. Not as fastidious as Dennis, I got Hoppes on this filler every time I cleaned. The devcon got soft on the surface and swelled to where it was causing the bolt to bind (788 action). I had to scrape it down. Eventually I re-did it with Acraglas and it was OK from that time on. By the way, I still use Hoppes with nitrobenzene and am as sloppy as ever ( this shortcoming cheerfully pointed out by Mr Neatness, AKA Guntech) I frequently wash my bedding (action bedding that is. I do not wash my sheets and pillow cases in Hoppes), my hands, my shoes, and occasionally, portions of the interior of my car with Hoppes #9. Luckily I also frequently coat my shoes with Acraglas liquid thereby protecting the leather from the Hoppes! Regards, Bill
I once used Devcon Steel to fill in the magazine cutout in a light varmint rifle I made for myself. Not as fastidious as Dennis, I got Hoppes on this filler every time I cleaned. The devcon got soft on the surface and swelled to where it was causing the bolt to bind (788 action). I had to scrape it down. Eventually I re-did it with Acraglas and it was OK from that time on. By the way, I still use Hoppes with nitrobenzene and am as sloppy as ever ( this shortcoming cheerfully pointed out by Mr Neatness, AKA Guntech) I frequently wash my bedding (action bedding that is. I do not wash my sheets and pillow cases in Hoppes), my hands, my shoes, and occasionally, portions of the interior of my car with Hoppes #9. Luckily I also frequently coat my shoes with Acraglas liquid thereby protecting the leather from the Hoppes! Regards, Bill
G-2
Since Industrial Formulators,the mixers of G-2,are local,I grabbed a bunch of the papers. The hardness of this epoxy can be changed by varying the amount of hardner. To get the "gel" effect you add thickner fiberglass mini fibers,more hard you add Carb-O-Sil. Earth pigments gets you the brown. Boat builders do it all the time,and they have breathed alot of resin fumes.
Since Industrial Formulators,the mixers of G-2,are local,I grabbed a bunch of the papers. The hardness of this epoxy can be changed by varying the amount of hardner. To get the "gel" effect you add thickner fiberglass mini fibers,more hard you add Carb-O-Sil. Earth pigments gets you the brown. Boat builders do it all the time,and they have breathed alot of resin fumes.
Bill, you always make me chuckle...
I have done a short test using today's Hoppes #9.
After 4 days Acraglas Gel seems unaffected. (Picture below)
I have taken one of these test pieces and left it submersed in a jar with Hoppes #9. I will examine it in a month.
I have done a short test using today's Hoppes #9.
After 4 days Acraglas Gel seems unaffected. (Picture below)
I have taken one of these test pieces and left it submersed in a jar with Hoppes #9. I will examine it in a month.
Dennis,
It may well be the nitrobenzene which is the "agent of destruction". As you know, Hoppes no longer contains nitrobenzene and may not affect the gel (I don't think it affects copper fouling much either!). My "old" Hoppes (I still have a half gallon) definitely does. The liquid Acraglas, on the other hand appears to be impervious to everything.
I also suspect the gel degrades over less time than does the liquid but since either compound seems to be good for at least twenty years, it,s kind of a moot point.
The one huge plus to the gel is that it doesn't drip or run although I still get it on the floor! Regards, Bill.
It may well be the nitrobenzene which is the "agent of destruction". As you know, Hoppes no longer contains nitrobenzene and may not affect the gel (I don't think it affects copper fouling much either!). My "old" Hoppes (I still have a half gallon) definitely does. The liquid Acraglas, on the other hand appears to be impervious to everything.
I also suspect the gel degrades over less time than does the liquid but since either compound seems to be good for at least twenty years, it,s kind of a moot point.
The one huge plus to the gel is that it doesn't drip or run although I still get it on the floor! Regards, Bill.
Bill, you always make me chuckle...
I have done a short test using today's Hoppes #9.
After 4 days Acraglas Gel seems unaffected.
I have taken one of these test pieces and left it submersed in a jar with Hoppes #9. I will examine it in a month.
Well the piece I left submerged in Hoppes #9 has gone soft in about 5 days... it was fully submersed. This was the Acraglas Gel.
The previous test piece that was unaffected was coated in Hoppes and left exposed to air and re coated with Hoppes the next day...
Not really Ian... I have been using the gel for 25 years and I have not had any jobs come back to be redone. Apparently not many submerse their stocks in Hoppes... and most of those who shoot a lot use a bore guide and proper cleaning methods... I don't see it as a problem at all.
