How Many 358 Winchester Fans Have We Got Here??
- Thread starter Tabacco Brook
- Start date
O'Connor wrote in The Rifle Book there's no longer any excuse for the 35 Whelen, having been superseded by the superior 338 WM. Little difference between the 358 and 35 Whelen.
If your point is that the .338 WM has rendered the .358 Win obsolete, that is some skewed thinking... the two rarely come up in the same conversation regarding any given application...
ie...
Woods whitetails = .358 Win
Woods grizzly = .338 WM
Spot n' stalk blacktails = .358 Win
Spot n' stalk bison = .338 WM
They don't generally run in the same circles... extending your nonsense point; the .338 WM renders everything from .22 cal to .30 cal obsolete... gotta get me a .338 WM for coyotes next weekend... don't want to be labelled "obsolete" (any more than I already am).
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
One has to go a long way down the list, to find A 300wm load. Brings the entire lists believability down to zero.
My guess would be that the bullets used in the test were not well suited to higher velocity, so things like 358 win and 444 Marlin score high because they don't go fast enough for massive weight loss, compared to a 300wm ect.
Its a 35 year old list. It probably gives reasonable expectations for cheap cup-and-core factory ammo though. Redo the test with Swift A-frames, or TSX bullets in all calibers and I would think the faster cartridges would rank much higher.
Yes, that was an interesting chart. I wonder if those "experts" really would choose a 7x57 over a .300WM or .45-70 if they knew they were to face a charging grizzly; after all, their arbitrarily concocted formula shows that it is the superior choice.
These experts always seem to fall into two broad categories. The Orwellian school, who know what's best for you, but also know that they personally will not follow those rules because they themselves are above such nonsense; and the Treadwellian school, who are just too stupid to live, follow their hearts and quickly get eaten.
One group is entertaining...the other is just irritating...
These experts always seem to fall into two broad categories. The Orwellian school, who know what's best for you, but also know that they personally will not follow those rules because they themselves are above such nonsense; and the Treadwellian school, who are just too stupid to live, follow their hearts and quickly get eaten.
One group is entertaining...the other is just irritating...
Yes but I think the 358 Win's bigger brothers shown here are even better suited to that 310gr if they have a 12" (or perhaps a 14") twist. I made these cutaway cases many years ago of my cartridges and COALS. I like that 310 also - though a good 250gr IME always gets a thru and thru on black bear and deer.
L to R
35 Whelen - 310Woodleigh 3.280"
350WSM - 310Woodleigh 2.865"
358Win - 310Woodleigh 2.865"
350 Rem Mag - 300 Barnes Original 2.820
Just Slamfire being Slamfire...
The .358 Win case capacity does not lend itself well to 300+ grain bullets... it makes no sense to load it with anything heavier than a 250... and the 225's are about perfect. The Whelen and 350 RM are better suited to the heavier bullets, but personally I choose the 250's for the both the Whelen and RM... if I were going to load the 310 Woodleigh, it would be in the Whelen.
L to R
35 Whelen - 310Woodleigh 3.280"
350WSM - 310Woodleigh 2.865"
358Win - 310Woodleigh 2.865"
350 Rem Mag - 300 Barnes Original 2.820
Nice illustration, Dave... the WSM cartridge looks much more balanced at .358"... how does that one shoot?
Yes, How does it shoot? Which ones faster, the WSM or the Rem Mag?
Its interesting that the 358win gives up very little powder space compared to the other short action cartridges, particularly the Rem Mag.
Good - typically gets about 1moa at 100 and 200 yards - 310s at close to 2400, 250s @2740MV and 225s@2900 from a 22" factory Ruger barrel.
The 350WSM is significantly faster.
Yes true but it is the available usable space that matters to hold more powder to send the bullet on its way. Optics aside, the 358Win has the least boiler room volume available and therefore is significantly slower than the rest.
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Tabacco Brook
Regular
- Location
- Nova Scotia
350 WSM,... I would love to have one in a nice 20"-22" bbl bolt rifle,..... If this ever becomes a standard production cartridge, IMO, it should be called .358 WSM not one of the many different names it is called today, such as 350WSM,.. 358-300WSM,.. 35-300WSM,.. 35 SAMBAR,.... just name it 358 WSM,..... 350 WSM is too close to 350 Rem Mag.
but regardless of what it is called, I would sure love to have one.
but regardless of what it is called, I would sure love to have one.
- Location
- In the shadows of the Rockies
I have a 350 Rem. Mag. built on a long action Remington 798 with a 24" 1:12 twist barrel. The 310gr Woodleigh can be seated out as shown to maximize case capacity. I can safely get a muzzle speed of 2500 fps with the 310gr, 2750 fps with a 250gr and 3050 fps with the 200gr TSX.
Best I can do with the 310gr in my 358 BLR is just under 2100 fps. Still quite a good close range Moose stomper at that muzzle speed. Excellent penetration.
.350 Rem. Mag. custom Remington 798 with Leupold VX-2 Ultralight 3-9x33mm
Best I can do with the 310gr in my 358 BLR is just under 2100 fps. Still quite a good close range Moose stomper at that muzzle speed. Excellent penetration.
.350 Rem. Mag. custom Remington 798 with Leupold VX-2 Ultralight 3-9x33mm
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Good info Slamfire.
The 310gr recommends an impact velocity between 1800 and 2200 so your 358Win is good in close and out some. Often times an expanding type bullet like this will often penetrate deeper as the impact velocity is reduced somewhat.
The 310gr recommends an impact velocity between 1800 and 2200 so your 358Win is good in close and out some. Often times an expanding type bullet like this will often penetrate deeper as the impact velocity is reduced somewhat.
As I commented above, it's available case volume the makes more room for powder and faster velocities possible - as your long action 350RM proves. Might improve feeding too as a good consequence. Great idea for an improved 350RM rifle for the handloader - especially with the new breed of loooong bullets available now.
35 Sambar was first so it has some claim to the "proper" designation and is not close to the 350 Rem Mag. I chose 350WSM (.358" groove dia.) to be consistent with the most popular 300WSM (.308" groove dia.) - and tagged the barrel and die set as such. But as you say it doesn't much matter what it's named.
