How Many 358 Winchester Fans Have We Got Here??

Slamfire said:
Best I can do with the 310gr in my 358 BLR is just under 2100 fps. Still quite a good close range Moose stomper at that muzzle speed.
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"Heavy for Cailber"... a good concept in specific applications... applied across-the-board as Slamfire seems inclined it is often pointless and detrimental to overall performance for a given cartridge. At the case capacity of the .358 Win do you think that at the acknowleged short range of the 310 bullet, that a 250 grain Partition will be any less effective at killing? And yet the increased speed and flattened trajectory of the 250 does provide an advantage for unexpected longer opportunities.

If you are hunting baited bears in thick cover, knock yourself out with the 310, but the 250 would do just as well there also, so... why?

Maximizing energy and momentum is not a bad thing, until it is a bad thing... IMO, the 310 in a .358 Win crosses the line of taking the concept too far.

Just my opinion...
 
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hoytcanon said:
"Heavy for Cailber"... a good concept in specific applications... applied across-the-board as Slamfire seems inclined it is often pointless and detrimental to overall performance for a given cartridge. At the case capacity of the .358 Win do you think that at the acknowleged short range of the 310 bullet, that a 250 grain Partition will be any less effective at killing? And yet the increased speed and flattened trajectory of the 250 does provide an advantage for unexpected longer opportunities.

If you are hunting baited bears in thick cover, knock yourself out with the 310, but the 250 would do just as well there also, so... why?

Maximizing energy and momentum is not a bad thing, until it is a bad thing... IMO, the 310 in a .358 Win crosses the line of taking the concept to far.

Just my opinion...
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But...but...but...what about when you are faced with heavy game?
 
The 250gr NP is a good choice. Feeding issues with the 250gr Swift in my 358 BLR however. Not sure with NP's.

Note the ballistic coefficient of the 310gr Woodleigh which is 0.458, not bad for a RN bullet, and is higher than the 250gr NP ballistic coefficient value of 0.446. The 250gr has a 200 fps advantage at the muzzle but that advantage decreases as range increases.

I often hunt in timber where shots can be obscured by brush, and shot angles are often unfavorable so the 310gr is better suited to be depended upon to shoot undeflected through brush and to penetrate clear through Moose at any angle.
 
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Whelen B said:
Good - typically gets about 1moa at 100 and 200 yards - 310s at close to 2400, 250s @2740MV and 225s@2900 from a 22" factory Ruger barrel.

The 350WSM is significantly faster.

Yes true but it is the available usable space that matters to hold more powder to send the bullet on its way. Optics aside, the 358Win has the least boiler room volume available and therefore is significantly slower than the rest.
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225@2900fps, and winchester said the 8mm cal was the biggest they could get magnum performance out of?

Now I want to build one...
 
Slamfire said:
The 250gr NP is a good choice. Feeding issues with the 250gr Swift in my 358 BLR however. Not sure with NP's.

Note the ballistic coefficient of the 310gr Woodleigh which is 0.458, not bad for a RN bullet, and is higher than than the 250gr NP ballistic coefficient value of 0.446. The 250gr has a 200 fps advantage at the muzzle but that advantage decreases as range increases.

I often hunt in timber where shots can be obscured by brush, and shot angles are often unfavorable so the 310gr is better suited to be depended upon to shoot undeflected through brush and to penetrate clear through Moose at any angle.
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Do you use a chainsaw for firewood or the 310 Woodleigh?
 
250gr NP at 2300 fps MV vs. 310gr Woodleigh at 2100 fps MV. The 310gr surpasses the 250gr in energy, and that 200 fps muzzle speed advantage the 250gr had is only about 160 fps at 300 yards. The blunt nose of the 310gr should still be capable of expanding at that range and beyond plus it will penetrate better than the 250gr because it has more momentum. ;)

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Suther said:
I know a guy who cut down a tree with 4 rds of 30-06...
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I shot a doe through a 6" aspen with a .30/30, pass through on both lungs and a short trail... it was not intentional, I was tracking her as she walked along and missed an opening as I squeezed off the round.
 
In his most excellent book Forty Years with the .45-70, Paul Matthews tells of a Deer that was killed by a 300gr bullet after going through a hickory tree. Now that's tree busting capability. He suggests to try the same stunt with a small bore high velocity round and compare the results. :cool:

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The "tree" was apparently 2 inches in diameter. I expect that trying the same with most any typical hunting round would yield the same results, assuming the deer is hit correctly...even down to, and including, the .223 that so many folks on here seem to think is such a devastatingly effective deer round.
 
And that is because...??

Momentum compared: (3000 fps x 55gr) / (2200 fps x 300gr) = 0.25, or the inverse meaning the 300gr bullet has 4x the momentum. The 223 55gr SP bullet will be blowed to flinders on impact on the tree.

No chancey Mr. Whelen. :p
 
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"Blowed to flinders?"

I'm not even suggesting that I would shoot a deer with a .223 without a tree in front of me...but if I had to, it would be with a bullet designed for such use, rather than an exploding varmint pill. Have you tried this, i.e. penetrating a tree? Or, is this just more extrapolation from charts and graphs and advertisements? A .223 "game bullet" or FMJ will sail right through a 2-inch piece of wood; done it, seen it and played with it many times. Try it, then tell me if there's really "not a chance".

In any case, my comment was not meant to promote such use. It was merely a "So what?" directed at that earth-shattering news item about a bullet penetrating a towering 2-inch behemoth of a tree before slaying the "heavy game" behind it.
 
...and winchester said the 8mm cal was the biggest they could get magnum performance out of?
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They were lying or not half trying - IMO. They could have done better with even the 338 but I believe they didn't want to go against their own 338Win. Again IMO.
 
jjohnwm said:
"Blowed to flinders?"

I'm not even suggesting that I would shoot a deer with a .223 without a tree in front of me...but if I had to, it would be with a bullet designed for such use, rather than an exploding varmint pill. Have you tried this, i.e. penetrating a tree? Or, is this just more extrapolation from charts and graphs and advertisements? A .223 "game bullet" or FMJ will sail right through a 2-inch piece of wood; done it, seen it and played with it many times. Try it, then tell me if there's really "not a chance".

In any case, my comment was not meant to promote such use. It was merely a "So what?" directed at that earth-shattering news item about a bullet penetrating a towering 2-inch behemoth of a tree before slaying the "heavy game" behind it.
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I remember seeing a thread here about a guy wanting to take deer with 22 caliber something. It wasn't a 223, it was less powerful... I want to say either 222, or 22 hornet.

Long story short, they loaded it with a TSX, shot into a log then split the log to see how far it went. I want to say it went 8+ inches. He then proceeded to go harvest his deer with one good shot.

Whelen B said:
They were lying or not half trying - IMO. They could have done better with even the 338 but I believe they didn't want to go against their own 338Win. Again IMO.
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I don't see why they'd be worried about going against the 338wm, they were already doing exactly that with the 300WSM/300wm - and wasn't that the first one they released? Besides that, surely a 338 magnum in a short action would be more popular then a freaking 8mm in North America... I know I'd be more interested, the 325 is so close to retired that I just don't see the point, might as well go full custom with the 350wsm or find a used 350rem mag if I want a SAAMI cartridge thats hard to find brass for...
 
I don't see why they'd be worried about going against the 338wm, they were already doing exactly that with the 300WSM/300wm
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Good point. Maybe that part of my theory is wrong. I agree with you that the 8mm choice was flawed.
 
Suther said:
...surely a 338 magnum in a short action would be more popular then a freaking 8mm in North America... I know I'd be more interested, the 325 is so close to retired that I just don't see the point, might as well go full custom with the 350wsm or find a used 350rem mag if I want a SAAMI cartridge thats hard to find brass for...
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I would choose the .350 WSM over the .325 WSM every time...

I am kinda of fond of the .350 RM, I have had several, and when I sell one, I always seem to buy another... the brass is out there, with a little patience and a sharp eye, you will stock up in short order.

My Ruger M77 MKII Stainless .350 RM is the bottom rifle, I load this one with 250 Partitions over 59.0 grains of W748;
 
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