How many full auto parts can you use in an AR15?
- Thread starter Brentn
- Start date
as scarecrow said the reciever is not illeagle to be able to accept the auto sear just not allowed to install it
the colt ro634 9mm smg recievers have the sear hole and the inside milled wide enough
Im sure ive seen other restricted only models with the auto sear hole and the internal milled out as well
the colt ro634 9mm smg recievers have the sear hole and the inside milled wide enough
Im sure ive seen other restricted only models with the auto sear hole and the internal milled out as well
MikeWilliamson
New member
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I approve of that, and it's so Canadian and so insane. Honors system, eh?
Don't use an M16 disconnector. Risk of slam fire. Don't use an M16 hammer. Risk of slam fire. Considering how many people buy ambi selectors, I'm not sure what the big deal is either way. M16 trigger doesn't matter. M16 bolt carrier doesn't matter, though I prefer as little weight as possible.
US law allows all parts (Except sear) also. The catch is, if you get the above mentioned slamfire, they'll accuse you of an illegal conversion.
US law allows all parts (Except sear) also. QUOTE]
Wrong,
no m16 parts allowed in an ar15 in the US, regardless of anything.
BATFE rules
MikeWilliamson
New member
- Location
- A well-equipped suburban bunker
US law allows all parts (Except sear) also. QUOTE]
Wrong,
no m16 parts allowed in an ar15 in the US, regardless of anything.
BATFE rules
There's an entire thread on ar15.com with quotes from the appropriate federal laws.
It is 100% legal.
BUT...if you have a slamfire, SOME members of the ATF will accuse you of a deliberate conversion. If they can confiscate your weapon, file the disconnect and make it slamfire they'll accuse you.
You will win in court. Several people have been so charged and have won. Of course, it was expensive to win.
I had a rifle with a full M16 FCG in it, which some moron had stamped with an "A" in the auto position, pursuant to dropping in an illegal auto sear. He's in jail, I got the rifle, ATF inspected it and blessed it.
Colt, Olympic and I believe Bushmaster ship their rifles with M16 bolt carriers.
I'm not going to rehash the thread or the argument here. It is 100% legal, but it is potentially dangerous when dealing with people who want to find reasons to hassle you.
It's also legal for a woman to walk topless down 42nd St in NYC at 0200. I don't recommend that either.
Frankly, I don't see the point of putting an M16 FCG in, since the AR15 group works perfectly. But it IS legal. End of discussion. Please don't argue, because the facts are as I have stated, the relevant laws are quoted on a 6 year running thread I'm not about to dig up, and I'm not going to bother arguing the point.
i agree m16 bolt carrier are use all the time in the US in AR-15 , if i am not mistaken the lastest colt LE sold to civilian used full auto carrier.
but i agree using the selector and disconnector is bad because your gun could go into full auto slam fire an extremely dangerous situation all legal issue asside
but i agree using the selector and disconnector is bad because your gun could go into full auto slam fire an extremely dangerous situation all legal issue asside
If you mill your receiver and drill the hole it could be claimed your intent is to break the law, however if you buy a receiver that already comes from the factory with these features then nothing wrong with that as long as its never had the parts in it. Our laws arent as definitive as those in the states.
Does Dlask make recievers this way?
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with my ar15, with all ar15 parts and an ar15 FCG i have had no problems, I am not really intending to 'improve' my rifle by adding the parts. I did think however that the added weight made a difference, but apparently not, it really doesn't matter now.
I just want it for 'collection' purposes, having something as close to military as possible is always fun IMO.
Thank you all for the information, I did try and search this before but it looks like the question had not been asked.
First time I see this thread.
Hm.....There is a little bit of misinformation is in here thread
As a Joe Average in this country (12x not discussed here),
you cannot have in your posession,
(weather they are assembled in a firearm or not)
the following:
-full auto sear,
-devices like DIAS, DSL, Pacfire, Strike, etc. etc.,
-receiver with the funny hole, even if it came like that
from the manufacturer or not, even if you have SA trigger group assembled in said receiver.
A lot of people who got caught with the above things,
were charged and faced the same magnitude of conviction
as caught with a FA firearm. It happened more than once.
I do not give anybody any legal advice here,
but AFAIK, in Canada you can have:
-FA type bolt, bolt carrier,
-any components of the fire control group except the sear,
-large trigger pocket machined into the receiver
(regardless of who machined it).
There is also the iffy situation of the receivers
with the funny hole drilled by the manufacturer
and covered (weather by the manufacturer or not)
with 2 rivet-like plugs (usualy steel). That is an American thing, IIRC.
Some (mostly Colt) were imported as such in Canada.
I am not sure about the Canadian legal details of these.
What I do know for sure is that there are (were) such cases
of some owners (of those rivet-blocked receivers, even if
they were registered as restricted)
being investigated and charged (BC, Ontario, PQ),
but, as I said, I do not know the specifics of these cases.
Hm.....There is a little bit of misinformation is in here thread
As a Joe Average in this country (12x not discussed here),
you cannot have in your posession,
(weather they are assembled in a firearm or not)
the following:
-full auto sear,
-devices like DIAS, DSL, Pacfire, Strike, etc. etc.,
-receiver with the funny hole, even if it came like that
from the manufacturer or not, even if you have SA trigger group assembled in said receiver.
A lot of people who got caught with the above things,
were charged and faced the same magnitude of conviction
as caught with a FA firearm. It happened more than once.
I do not give anybody any legal advice here,
but AFAIK, in Canada you can have:
-FA type bolt, bolt carrier,
-any components of the fire control group except the sear,
-large trigger pocket machined into the receiver
(regardless of who machined it).
There is also the iffy situation of the receivers
with the funny hole drilled by the manufacturer
and covered (weather by the manufacturer or not)
with 2 rivet-like plugs (usualy steel). That is an American thing, IIRC.
Some (mostly Colt) were imported as such in Canada.
I am not sure about the Canadian legal details of these.
What I do know for sure is that there are (were) such cases
of some owners (of those rivet-blocked receivers, even if
they were registered as restricted)
being investigated and charged (BC, Ontario, PQ),
but, as I said, I do not know the specifics of these cases.
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MikeWilliamson
New member
- Location
- A well-equipped suburban bunker
In the US you CAN have an FA bolt carrier. Many mfrs use those as standard.
You CAN have an FA fire control group minus the sear....BUT...you risk ATF deciding it "deliberately" is designed to slam fire (even if they have to modify it to do so) and charging you with fabrication of an illegal MG. People have passed muster with FA parts minus sear, they've also been jailed. It's very subjective (though it shouldn't be. The law should be clear), so only a twit risks it.
A recent case down here involves a guy who helped people build their semi receivers at his house, and loaned out ARs to people in the interim. He's now facing charges for possessing and transferring (but not fabricating) a FA, because the gun allegedly slamfired.
ATF modified the weapon, and won't allow either he or his atty to examine or handle the weapon, EVEN IN COURT (this should probably get it tossed on appeal), and claimed the relevant laws were "secret" because "They involved sensitive tax information" (ditto).
All highly illegal on their part and he should walk...eventually. Especially as the "witness" who received the gun claims to be a combat vet (sergeant(CPL for Canadian ranks) of Iraq, but is an 18 year old punk who was testifying during the time his site alleges he was off being a war hero.
Unfortunately, the defendant hasn't learned and still insists he has the "right" to loan rifles to people he thinks "look alright."
It would also be legal for a topless woman to carry an AR15 through NYC, as long as she was "transporting" it and not stopping IN NYC, too.
I don't recommend either legal activity as smart.
You CAN have an FA fire control group minus the sear....BUT...you risk ATF deciding it "deliberately" is designed to slam fire (even if they have to modify it to do so) and charging you with fabrication of an illegal MG. People have passed muster with FA parts minus sear, they've also been jailed. It's very subjective (though it shouldn't be. The law should be clear), so only a twit risks it.
A recent case down here involves a guy who helped people build their semi receivers at his house, and loaned out ARs to people in the interim. He's now facing charges for possessing and transferring (but not fabricating) a FA, because the gun allegedly slamfired.
ATF modified the weapon, and won't allow either he or his atty to examine or handle the weapon, EVEN IN COURT (this should probably get it tossed on appeal), and claimed the relevant laws were "secret" because "They involved sensitive tax information" (ditto).
All highly illegal on their part and he should walk...eventually. Especially as the "witness" who received the gun claims to be a combat vet (sergeant(CPL for Canadian ranks) of Iraq, but is an 18 year old punk who was testifying during the time his site alleges he was off being a war hero.
Unfortunately, the defendant hasn't learned and still insists he has the "right" to loan rifles to people he thinks "look alright."
It would also be legal for a topless woman to carry an AR15 through NYC, as long as she was "transporting" it and not stopping IN NYC, too.
I don't recommend either legal activity as smart.
103. (1) Every person commits an offence who imports or exports
(a) a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition, or
(b) any component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm,
knowing that the person is not authorized to do so under the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
Sorry but this is incorrect. Yes people may have been charged (see above) but it incorrect regardless. There were many Colt 9mm AR's mfgd with the FA sear hole that are restricted in Canada. The DIAS will likely cause you problems no doubt. Possession of the other items is NOT prohibited....putting them in the gun and it going full-auto is a no no.
Making automatic firearm
102. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, alters a firearm so that it is capable of, or manufactures or assembles any firearm that is capable of, discharging projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger.
Using M-16 BCG in AR is perfectly legal. Importing them is legal. They are not solely for use in FA guns and do improve longevity and reliablility. Further to this, the past practices of some Mfgr's is to use the FA BCG for this reason (Bushmaster for one). Hence they are legal.
Boltgun
(a) a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition, or
(b) any component or part designed exclusively for use in the manufacture of or assembly into an automatic firearm,
knowing that the person is not authorized to do so under the Firearms Act or any other Act of Parliament or any regulations made under an Act of Parliament.
Sorry but this is incorrect. Yes people may have been charged (see above) but it incorrect regardless. There were many Colt 9mm AR's mfgd with the FA sear hole that are restricted in Canada. The DIAS will likely cause you problems no doubt. Possession of the other items is NOT prohibited....putting them in the gun and it going full-auto is a no no.
Making automatic firearm
102. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, alters a firearm so that it is capable of, or manufactures or assembles any firearm that is capable of, discharging projectiles in rapid succession during one pressure of the trigger.
Using M-16 BCG in AR is perfectly legal. Importing them is legal. They are not solely for use in FA guns and do improve longevity and reliablility. Further to this, the past practices of some Mfgr's is to use the FA BCG for this reason (Bushmaster for one). Hence they are legal.
Boltgun
Hello Boltgun,
With all due respect, just for the record,
in your above quotation with some of my statements
you have attached some things that are not mine
(import of items, open to interpretation, cash for a lawyer, etc.).
Not that it matters that much, but...
Concerning of what I said,
-the info concerning the illegality of posession of the FA sear
by individuals (I refferd to them as Joe Average)
is taken from the correspondence between some gun related businesses
and RCMP, CFO-BC, Central Forensic Lab Ottawa
related to the legality of the FA sear
(aquiring and posession by the said gun related businesses,
marketing to individuals, etc. and in one instance even
the inquiring of the manufacturing of the FA TCG).
-the info concerning the extra hole in the receiver is from
letters (received from CFO - BC) to some businesses
(most of them firearm manufacturers) related to the
legality of drilling the said hole in used
and/or newly manufactured receivers.
The above-mentioned letters (again, received from various
departments of RCMP, CFO-BC, Central Forensic Lab Ottawa)
are the base of my statements in my previous post.
You will please excuse me for not posting the said correspondence,
as it is not exclusively mine.
On a different note, regardless of the CCC provisions,
I know of 4 individuals in 3 different un-related cases
being investigated and charged (2 of them already served time)
because of having in posession receivers with the extra hole,
drilled by the manufacturer or not,
even if the guns did not have FCG able of FA
installed at the time of the seizure.
Weather the charges were based on intention,
convertion (manufacturing of prohibited)
and/or posession of prohibited (converted auto), I don't know.
Yes, as i said in my above post I am aware of some receivers
being imported legaly in Canada with the extra hole
(weather blocked by rivets or not).
If the authorities chose to change their mind regarding
the legality of those after the importation,
it might be the reason of the cases I mentioned in BC, Ontario, PQ.
These cases are around (and include) the idea of "converted auto"
associated to a receiver with extra holes covered by rivets.
Regards
With all due respect, just for the record,
in your above quotation with some of my statements
you have attached some things that are not mine
(import of items, open to interpretation, cash for a lawyer, etc.).
Not that it matters that much, but...
Concerning of what I said,
-the info concerning the illegality of posession of the FA sear
by individuals (I refferd to them as Joe Average)
is taken from the correspondence between some gun related businesses
and RCMP, CFO-BC, Central Forensic Lab Ottawa
related to the legality of the FA sear
(aquiring and posession by the said gun related businesses,
marketing to individuals, etc. and in one instance even
the inquiring of the manufacturing of the FA TCG).
-the info concerning the extra hole in the receiver is from
letters (received from CFO - BC) to some businesses
(most of them firearm manufacturers) related to the
legality of drilling the said hole in used
and/or newly manufactured receivers.
The above-mentioned letters (again, received from various
departments of RCMP, CFO-BC, Central Forensic Lab Ottawa)
are the base of my statements in my previous post.
You will please excuse me for not posting the said correspondence,
as it is not exclusively mine.
On a different note, regardless of the CCC provisions,
I know of 4 individuals in 3 different un-related cases
being investigated and charged (2 of them already served time)
because of having in posession receivers with the extra hole,
drilled by the manufacturer or not,
even if the guns did not have FCG able of FA
installed at the time of the seizure.
Weather the charges were based on intention,
convertion (manufacturing of prohibited)
and/or posession of prohibited (converted auto), I don't know.
Yes, as i said in my above post I am aware of some receivers
being imported legaly in Canada with the extra hole
(weather blocked by rivets or not).
If the authorities chose to change their mind regarding
the legality of those after the importation,
it might be the reason of the cases I mentioned in BC, Ontario, PQ.
These cases are around (and include) the idea of "converted auto"
associated to a receiver with extra holes covered by rivets.
Regards
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The add ons were mine
As I suspected. If Joe Blow was walking down the street with a FA sear he would not be in possession of a prohibited device. Given context of certain circumstances, I can see there being problems. Certain units would be inclined to say that some of the Colt 634's (correct model #???) would be CA's! When in reality they were mfgr'd like that (SA that is). Does that make the receiver a Prohibited item? No.
Boltgun
Its possible!
Got news for you in that its possible for a semi AR15 to fire more than once
when the trigger is pulled once if it has a miss match match of trigger group
parts in the lower receiver,heres the story.Once bought 2 AR15 SP1s,one which had been fired and the other never fired with the idea of using the one
and saving the other as a collector.Finally I sold the used one to a friend and
decided to start using the unfired one for myself.Just happened the day I took it to the range to fire it a friend of mine a RCMP instructor was there shooting too.Loaded the mag and pulled the trigger and bang bang and the gun jams.Cleared the jam and pulled the trigger and again full auto for two shots.By this time it had caught the attention of my friend and I said is it doing what I think Its doing?We split open the receiver and he inspected it
and seemed to think everything looked normal.He suggested that I take it to
Don Irvine a AR15 gunsmith in Scarbrough which I did.Got there and he opened it up and chuckled and walked over to a cabinet and retrieved a small
part,removed the one in mine and installed the new one,said $20 bucks and gave me the old one to keep and said when Colt built the rifle they made a small mistake and installed one full auto part in the trigger group.That fixed
her and the rifle had worked correctly in that the semi bolt and hook grabbed and held/jammed to stop it from going fully auto after the first two auto shots. ---Thanks-Dieseldog!!
Got news for you in that its possible for a semi AR15 to fire more than once
when the trigger is pulled once if it has a miss match match of trigger group
parts in the lower receiver,heres the story.Once bought 2 AR15 SP1s,one which had been fired and the other never fired with the idea of using the one
and saving the other as a collector.Finally I sold the used one to a friend and
decided to start using the unfired one for myself.Just happened the day I took it to the range to fire it a friend of mine a RCMP instructor was there shooting too.Loaded the mag and pulled the trigger and bang bang and the gun jams.Cleared the jam and pulled the trigger and again full auto for two shots.By this time it had caught the attention of my friend and I said is it doing what I think Its doing?We split open the receiver and he inspected it
and seemed to think everything looked normal.He suggested that I take it to
Don Irvine a AR15 gunsmith in Scarbrough which I did.Got there and he opened it up and chuckled and walked over to a cabinet and retrieved a small
part,removed the one in mine and installed the new one,said $20 bucks and gave me the old one to keep and said when Colt built the rifle they made a small mistake and installed one full auto part in the trigger group.That fixed
her and the rifle had worked correctly in that the semi bolt and hook grabbed and held/jammed to stop it from going fully auto after the first two auto shots. ---Thanks-Dieseldog!!
In Canada everything is based on intent.
That being said I think it's only illegal to import m16 components such as the auto sear. Seeing as how the other parts aren't specifically designed to make a gun go full auto the auto sear stands alone.
I don't however believe as far as I know it's illegal to merely possess one...
An LL or DIAS are specifically prohibited from possession because of their ease of making a gun FA. It's more or less having the full functioning machine gun in your hand.
That being said I think it's only illegal to import m16 components such as the auto sear. Seeing as how the other parts aren't specifically designed to make a gun go full auto the auto sear stands alone.
I don't however believe as far as I know it's illegal to merely possess one...
An LL or DIAS are specifically prohibited from possession because of their ease of making a gun FA. It's more or less having the full functioning machine gun in your hand.
