How many guns before inspection

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crusoe

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The milsurp forum seemed the best place to post this one, as it applies especially to milsurp where large collections of firearms are common. But please move this to a more general forum if that seems more appropriate.

My question: I currently own five registered firearms. Four of my firearms are milsurps, all Lee-Enfields. I am completely legal as far as I know in every way in respect of firearms ownership and use, I have no criminal record and there is no other reason I know of why I should ever be visited by the police. But, could this happen, simply because of the number of guns I own? Or is there a higher threshold number? I see that plenty on the milsurp forum own many more firearms than me.

I am led to understand that the police have the right to come and check safe storage for anyone with a firearm, though I'm led to understand that this is not common (esp on a farm as I am) unless there are other reasons for a visit, and that it should be preceded by ample written warning of the impending visit. Is this so?

Do your local OPP/RCMP review the database routlinely just to check local gun ownership - thus discovering someone like me - or does this only happen if they need to visit an address for another reason, and check it specifically? i.e., do the police know how many guns I have already, or do they just have those data available should they need to check? Who else can access that database? Can my neighbours find out?

I am relatively new to the legalities of registered firearm ownership in Canada, as most of my adult shooting in Canada has been black powder flintlock longarms, which thankfully (if bizarrely) fall outside the registration tentacles in this country. I have only started collecting and shooting firearms that need to be registered over the last year or so.

Lots of questions but this has been niggling at me for a while - I don't expect comprehensive answers but even quick thoughts on this would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
I don't know anyone, nor have I heard of anyone, who's had their personal firearms inspected. This if for firearms owners who have considerably more than 5 guns.

Unless you've come to the cops attention for some other matter, I don't think they'll be showing up at your door.
 
Restricted firearms can only be held for shooting or collecting. I think there is a provision for instpections of restricted gun collections. As for 4 Lee Enfields and a .22 you can unwind the tinfoil turban and recall Junior from the rooftop air sentry position watching for black helicopters.

The Charter has reasonable search and seizure protections already. Unless you are suspected of commiting a crime or there is a risk of lost evidence or danger to others, the cops have to be polite and solicit your permission. I think you can tell them to go away and get a search warrant if they have no other grounds. Legal firearms ownership does not necessarily suspend the Charter.

I do know that full auto collectors have an extensive checklist to meet. There is one guy with a big sticker on his safe, 'Gun Safe', because some inspector with a rain puddle-deep IQ has to tick the box on the form confirming the guns are in a 'gun safe'.
 
I live in a small rural town in Ontario (you mentioned O.P.P.). I have somewhere 150 and 200 firearms, including around 30 or 40 restricted/prohibited including converted autos. I have had this kind of collection for many years now, and I have never had any hint of a police inspection. Keep in mind, however, that if the police happen to come to your house for an unrelated reason (B&E, fire, etc) and you have rifles laying all over the place, they are probably going to start asking questions. While they may not have the right to do so, we all understand that as gun owners (especially in Ontario) we are presumed guilty until Dalton McDufuss and his merry band of idiots can find some way to prove it.:rolleyes:
 
Suppose to be 10+ non-restricted, or 1 restricted/prohibited that allows the CFO grounds to do an inspection.
 
IMHO in Canada there should be a provision for an inspection if you do not own a Lee-Enfield. :D
And the Government should bring you one. :canadaFlag:
 
Nobody I know has ever been inspected.

And some have way more than 10.

One I know of had his guns temporaily seized after he beat up his junkie son for stealing off him and the kid charged him with assault, but he got them back.
 
I had over 70 rifles and about 4 pistols at one time, and never had the knock at the door..... I really think the cops have better things to do. (and no, I don't have 70 rifles anymore..... sold off about 60 of them, and I still have a few more I plan to sell.) :D
 
One of our club members had a female RCMP officer and another unidentified individual show up at the door. They wanted to check out his guns, said they were looking for unregistered restricted and prohibited firearms. He said it wasn't convenient right now because he had to go out. They asked when it would be. He said to call him in a week or so. They never came back.
 
The whole point is that cops need a warrant to seach your home for anything. Judges issue the warrants and they won't issue them for bull#### reasons like "i just want to see if he's storing his guns properly". This part in the firearms act or C68 where ever it is bypasses the whole judge thing. It's just part of the social engineering horse#### we have come to expect from our wonderful govment.
 
Inspection......

OK....

Here it is right from the Firearms Act.
Inspection

102. (1) Subject to section 104, for the purpose of ensuring compliance with this Act and the regulations, an inspector may at any reasonable time enter and inspect any place where the inspector believes on reasonable grounds a business is being carried on or there is a record of a business, any place in which the inspector believes on reasonable grounds there is a gun collection or a record in relation to a gun collection or any place in which the inspector believes on reasonable grounds there is a prohibited firearm or there are more than 10 firearms and may

Duty to assist inspectors

103. The owner or person in charge of a place that is inspected by an inspector under section 102 and every person found in the place shall

(a) give the inspector all reasonable assistance to enable him or her to carry out the inspection and exercise any power conferred by section 102; and

(b) provide the inspector with any information relevant to the enforcement of this Act or the regulations that he or she may reasonably require.

Inspection of dwelling-house

104. (1) An inspector may not enter a dwelling-house under section 102 except

(a) on reasonable notice to the owner or occupant, except where a business is being carried on in the dwelling-house; and

(b) with the consent of the occupant or under a warrant.

Authority to issue warrant

(2) A justice who on ex parte application is satisfied by information on oath
(a) that the conditions for entry described in section 102 exist in relation to a dwelling-house,

(b) that entry to the dwelling-house is necessary for any purpose relating to the enforcement of this Act or the regulations, and

(c) that entry to the dwelling-house has been refused or that there are reasonable grounds for believing that entry will be refused

may issue a warrant authorizing the inspector named in it to enter that dwelling-house subject to any conditions that may be specified in the warrant.
----------------

So basically.....refusing inspection is reason enough to issue a search warrant!!!!
 
And to confuse you more....

Definition of “inspector”

101. In sections 102 to 105, "inspector" means a firearms officer and includes, in respect of a province, a member of a class of individuals designated by the provincial minister.

and then in the definition section
"firearms officer" means

( a) in respect of a province, an individual who is designated in writing as a firearms officer for the province by the provincial minister of that province,

( b) in respect of a territory, an individual who is designated in writing as a firearms officer for the territory by the federal Minister, or

( c) in respect of any matter for which there is no firearms officer under paragraph ( a) or ( b), an individual who is designated in writing as a firearms officer for the matter by the federal Minister;

-----------------
What that means is that a police officer is not an inspector unless the above conditions are met.
 
No warrant, get lost.

If they want to talk, step outside and close the door and talk.... carefully.

If the police are talking to you they are collecting evidence the whole time.
 
Right about the time that the lastest gun laws came into effect I had a break-in at my house. Just prior to this I had strengthened the room which contained my collection which numbered about 75 at the time. I have to say that I was not much of a carpenter aty that time though I did build things to the excess. The slimy kids who got in tried to open the door to the room with no success. They stole all my booze instead.
The police who attended...two of whom I would say were lackluster...generally were quite genial. The cop in charge came into the house and followed footprints around the house till satified everything was OK. After this he asked if I had firearms...I asked if records on thier end indicated this...he said they did, I replied your records are correct. He asked to see where they are stored. The kids jammed the door so badly it took bother of us considerable effeort to open. I installed the door backwards in that it opened outwards rather then the normal inwards. He looked around inside the room and asked where are the guns...I asked him to tell me if he could find them....he could not. When I showed him the lock-up he nearly fell over. After all was siad and done I asked him what he will write in his report about my firearm storage facility. I watched as he wrote..."The owner of the house owns firearms, restricted and non...the storage of said firearms is impregnable, and secure beyond resonable effort." I thanked him.
I have not had an inspection since nor even any inquiry about my stuff by the police. It may have helped that a goof friend of mine in the force has been over to the house several times during the subsequent renovation and fortification of the collection room...my carpentry skills have improved, though I purposely (this time) installed the door backwards.
Interesting thread guys.
Cheers
 
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