how many guns did you take to Africa???

How is it not ethical if that shooter can make that shot 100% of the time, and does so on a regular basis?

At that distance NOBODY, not even you, can guarantee a quick kill 100% of the time.

In any event, the PH carries the responsibility for allowing the shot - he cannot be aware of your fantastic capabilities and generally he should just not allow the shot.

This is my last word on the issue as we are distracting from the original thread.
 
At that distance NOBODY, not even you, can guarantee a quick kill 100% of the time.

No one can guarantee a quick kill 100% of the time at any range but for someone well practiced at long range, with the proper gear and all conditions being right, I hardly see 600 yards as being unethical. I shot my kudu at 406 yards.
 
Not my last word though when conditions are right and you know your gun/load and you actually take the time and practice 600 yards is a non issue shot.
 
Because the PH is suppose to guide you on an ethical hunt and it is just not ethical to allow a client to shoot at an animal at that distance because of the huge risk that the animal will end up wounded.

I agree, but some of us CAN shoot. So who is to determine what is an ethical distance?
1st thing I did when I arrived in camp was to rezero both my rifles and then shot targets placed out to 1000 yards, at which point the PH realized I CAN shoot. If there was ANY risk of wounding the animal I would not take the shot.

I have spent my life shooting extreme long range (1000 yards plus)
I think if I can shoot the heads off of sparrows at 600 yards, and gophers at 1000 yards plus, an Eland which is a very large animal, is not much of a challenge. I normally wear out a barrel every year from shooting my hunting rifle. You do NOT gain the LR skill by talking about shooting it is developed by shooting religiously in all types of weather and conditions and at various ranges on SMALL targets.

I get into this debate FAR too often and typically those who claim long range hunting to be unethical are the same 1s who shoot only occasionally and tend to wound far more animals at close range than any of us serious LR hunters ever will.
 
Count down starting pretty soon for me

Me too :)

Leaving in less than a month and am bringing 3 rifles...not because I think I'll need them, but because I want to hunt with all of them. I don't want to hunt with my guide's gun, I want to hunt with my own pride & joy. .375 Ruger Hawkeye, .30-06 Rem 700 and .30-30 Win. Like another poster said, it's no more trouble to do the paperwork for 1 gun than for 2 (or 3) and weight is still ok. All 3 fit fine in my Redhead aluminum case and it's still within weight allowance.

You're allowed 5kg or 11lbs of ammo which is tons, regardless of caliber. 50 rounds of each caliber I'm bringing is only 9lbs and is far more than I'll ever need for one trip. Better too much than not enough, and better way too much than just too much :) You can always bring the extras home.
 
At that distance NOBODY, not even you, can guarantee a quick kill 100% of the time.

In any event, the PH carries the responsibility for allowing the shot - he cannot be aware of your fantastic capabilities and generally he should just not allow the shot.

This is my last word on the issue as we are distracting from the original thread.

Not my last word either. You're stunned. Anyone who knows Rick knows he can make that shot any time. If for some reason he couldn't, he wouldn't try. That's the difference between skills and stunts.
 
And my count down is on too...230 days to Zim 2010! Sadly, due to the arms embargo I can't take my own rifles with me so I have to use the camp rifle. Gatehouse will never let me live down shooting my first Cape Buffalo with a 375 Ruger!

Rick, why do we never talk and get out sh*t on the same page when it comes to these things?
 
Count down starting pretty soon for me and am having a hell of a dilema figuring out if I take one rifle or two rifles with me to Africa on the menu is Kudu, Gemsboks, Blesbok, Impala, Bushbuck, Gnu, Warthogs. I want to take a 300H&H and a 7x57 but wonder if I have to many guns with weight restrictions how many guns did you guys go with on your trips? I realize if you went for Buff you had a big bore and probably a medium bore but for plains game did you take more than one gun? Looking forward to hearing back:canadaFlag:

Take the 7x57 that is al you will ever need to shoot those animals on the list.
If you want a buff take a 375 H&H with solids - leave the soft tops at home.

where are you hunting btw?
 
I agree, but some of us CAN shoot. So who is to determine what is an ethical distance?
1st thing I did when I arrived in camp was to rezero both my rifles and then shot targets placed out to 1000 yards, at which point the PH realized I CAN shoot. If there was ANY risk of wounding the animal I would not take the shot.

I have spent my life shooting extreme long range (1000 yards plus)
I think if I can shoot the heads off of sparrows at 600 yards, and gophers at 1000 yards plus, an Eland which is a very large animal, is not much of a challenge. I normally wear out a barrel every year from shooting my hunting rifle. You do NOT gain the LR skill by talking about shooting it is developed by shooting religiously in all types of weather and conditions and at various ranges on SMALL targets.

I get into this debate FAR too often and typically those who claim long range hunting to be unethical are the same 1s who shoot only occasionally and tend to wound far more animals at close range than any of us serious LR hunters ever will.

Dude it is simple really - if you tried that trick on our farm, you would have had your bags packed and the "bakie" would be idling, ready to take you back from whence you came.

Ego shots and big game hunting don't go hand in hand in Africa - that simple.
 
Dude it is simple really - if you tried that trick on our farm, you would have had your bags packed and the "bakie" would be idling, ready to take you back from whence you came.

Ego shots and big game hunting don't go hand in hand in Africa - that simple.

You noobs just don't get it. Sad really.
 
If you want a buff take a 375 H&H with solids - leave the soft tops at home.

QUOTE]

Haven't met the PH yet that didn't recomend a soft for the first shot on buffalo.



Well you have now,

of the 120 or so Buffs shot with us on our place, or on our leased ground in the last year - only five turned and came back, looking for a scrap, each of those had been hit with soft tops.


No it is is simple - 375 H&H or larger, solids only for the Dhaga boys..

We have a similar formulae for bow hunting - 1000 grain arrow - tipped with a two bladed German Kinetics head - shot from a 90lb bow - that's it , if you choose not to follow the guide lines - find another outfitter - that easy.

After 30 years of guiding - I think we have over 200 years of bush craft experience in my close family alone - bring in our five full time PH's and the four part time PH's I would hazard a guess at saying that pushes it out to 400 years of experience - and each, will, without hesitation say exactly the same thing I have said - makes you think doesn't it?


When you have this happen to you a few times, because some #### popped it on the shoulder with a soft top - you get smart.......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sn2eOYlMrg
 
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Ego shots and big game hunting don't go hand in hand in Africa - that simple.

How do we go from a well practiced marksman shooting top quality gear under ideal conditions to calling it an ego shoot......me thinks someone else's ego is getting in the way....
 
Dude it is simple really - if you tried that trick on our farm, you would have had your bags packed and the "bakie" would be idling, ready to take you back from whence you came.

Ego shots and big game hunting don't go hand in hand in Africa - that simple.

"Son" it IS really simple, there is NO trick, just 30 plus years of extreme long range precision shooting at distances you can not likely comprehend.
I would suggest that if you were to witness 1st hand what I can do with a rifle, and the rifle that I shoot you may change your tune.
If you should want to become "enlightened" come over the Rock Pile and I would be happy to school you.

How you feel unleashing MORE kinetic energy than a 460 Wby has at at the muzzle and a far higher velocity at a 1 ton animal and killing every animal taken in the last 15 years with 1 shot is a trick eludes me.

FYI the 325 gr custom made bullet I killed this eland with travelled over 5 feet through the animal.

To say I take my hunting seriously is a gross understatement.
My ammo is fully tested in the field on cattle (I own some) rather than phone books or gelatin so I know what the bullet is capable of, my ammo is all case weighed, and each charge is weighed to the 1/100 th of a grain. Each bullet is weighed to the same weight. The bullets I shoot are custom made to function in best possible manner for my particular rifle, caliber and velocity. They are designed specifically for long range hunting performance.The rifle very capable of 1/4 moa consiatant groups.
My yearly ammo cost exceeds many guys gross annual income. My rifles tend to cost what some new cars do.

How many of your clients show up in country with a portable wind station, laser range finder, spotting scope with calibrated reticle?? Set up targets in 100 yard increments to 1000 yards and confirm their comeups IN the country in which they are about to hunt in??
And can shoot flying fowl with a rifle??

NOT your average hunting rifle ????
Africa121.jpg




You should try this, it takes some skill to head shoot em on the wing AND it is real good fun.
323.jpg



Please note shot placement on what was charging at us. I went to RSA for a plains game hunt, this is NOT normally considered plains game I believe. My PH could not even get his rifle up and on her before I had her skidding, so don't give me the PH knows everything crap. I will grant PHs like every other trade have good 1s and some that are totally inept.
Africa153.jpg


So what was the name of your outfit??
 
"Son" it IS really simple, there is NO trick, just 30 plus years of extreme long range precision shooting at distances you can not likely comprehend.
I would suggest that if you were to witness 1st hand what I can do with a rifle, and the rifle that I shoot you may change your tune.
If you should want to become "enlightened" come over the Rock Pile and I would be happy to school you.

How you feel unleashing MORE kinetic energy than a 460 Wby has at at the muzzle and a far higher velocity at a 1 ton animal and killing every animal taken in the last 15 years with 1 shot is a trick eludes me.

FYI the 325 gr custom made bullet I killed this eland with travelled over 5 feet through the animal.

To say I take my hunting seriously is a gross understatement.
My ammo is fully tested in the field on cattle (I own some) rather than phone books or gelatin so I know what the bullet is capable of, my ammo is all case weighed, and each charge is weighed to the 1/100 th of a grain. Each bullet is weighed to the same weight. The bullets I shoot are custom made to function in best possible manner for my particular rifle, caliber and velocity. They are designed specifically for long range hunting performance.The rifle very capable of 1/4 moa consiatant groups.
My yearly ammo cost exceeds many guys gross annual income. My rifles tend to cost what some new cars do.

How many of your clients show up in country with a portable wind station, laser range finder, spotting scope with calibrated reticle?? Set up targets in 100 yard increments to 1000 yards and confirm their comeups IN the country in which they are about to hunt in??
And can shoot flying fowl with a rifle??

NOT your average hunting rifle ????




You should try this, it takes some skill to head shoot em on the wing AND it is real good fun.



Please note shot placement on what was charging at us. I went to RSA for a plains game hunt, this is NOT normally considered plains game I believe. My PH could not even get his rifle up and on her before I had her skidding, so don't give me the PH knows everything crap. I will grant PHs like every other trade have good 1s and some that are totally inept.


So what was the name of your outfit??

Interesting - I have not been called "Son" for forty years. Nice but I understand the insinuation!

So tell me tactical Rifle - do you honestly think that you are the only "boy" that takes his shooting seriously? do you honestly think that because we live in Southern Africa we only own assegais and live in mud huts?

Puleeze - we have been playing Steyer scouts, Lapua's and Kimber's for years, My fourteen year old nephew shoots a Steyer CISM which his father bought him for his birthday.

Or is it only the big Bawanas from North Amerika, who come over to our what did you call it? - "Rock Pile" to enlighten us..... on how to shoot?

Be careful who you try and flame - you might want to extract your over blown head from your own arsehole and first understand who you are talking to, as to your horses**t about hunting at 1000 yards in Africa, be my guest - only some dumb arse, awestruck by your crap, would allow it. Where I come from you would not even be able to see 200 yards let alone shoot at 400.

As to our outfit - forget it - we have weened ourselves of the North American trade a while ago - we really do not want your business.
 
Interesting - I have not been called "Son" for forty years. Nice but I understand the insinuation!

So tell me tactical Rifle - do you honestly think that you are the only "boy" that takes his shooting seriously? do you honestly think that because we live in Southern Africa we only own assegais and live in mud huts?

Puleeze - we have been playing steyer Scouts, Lapua's and Kimber's for years, My fourteen year old nephew shoots a Steyer CISM which his father bought him for his birthday.

Or is it only the big Bawanas from North Amerika, who come over to our what did you cal it? - "Rock Pile" to enlighten us..... on how to shoot?

Be careful who you try and flame - you might want to extract your over blown head from your own arsehole and first understand who you are talking to, as to your horses**t about hunting at 1000 yards in Africa, be my guest - only some dumb arse, awestruck by your crap would allow it - where I come from you would not even be able to see 200 yards let alone shoot at 400.

As to our outfit - forget it - we have weened ourselves of the North American trade a while ago - we really do not want your business.


Now you have us all confused, you list being in British Columbia which is 1 province west of "The Rock Pile". Someone actually in B.C. would know this.

Having been to RSA a few times am fairly familiar with the landscape. There certainly ARE areas where close range is the only range, but there are also areas where long range is very possible.

Personally Mr. "newbie" I think at this point I have a tad more credibility than you as I am fairly well known and what I do, and have done is well documented and has been witnessed or verified by many of the members on this forum.

I assumed when you call me "dude" you must be young as it seems only teenage "dudes" refer to each other in that manner, hence responded with "son" as I am a tad old to be called "dude".

Your use of "Puleeze" as well as some of your other teenaged like wording further makes me wonder if we don't have a "teen wannabe" here. It is so easy to hide behind the anonimity of the internet isn't it?

And by the way I have been threatened by the best, and you ain't it.:puke:

"As to our outfit - forget it - we have weened ourselves of the North American trade a while ago - we really do not want your business"

Given your attitude here I suspect the North American trade will have little to do with you .
 
KUDU - a little off topic , being in Africa and I know there are RPG's there . Has anyone ever shot an Elephant with one? Stupid question i know but I cant imagine it hasnt been done. too much meat damage?:D
 
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