how many guns did you take to Africa???

jaywill said:
KUDU - a little off topic , being in Africa and I know there are RPG's there . Has anyone ever shot an Elephant with one? Stupid question i know but I cant imagine it hasnt been done. too much meat damage?:D
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Man - what a mess that would make - No I don't know of anyone whacking an Elephant with an RPG. However I do know what an RPG does to a land-rover - it happened to my father all we found was his hat and his boots.

I have heard tales of some lets call them "less than scruples" people driving a herd of elephants into a minefield in Mozambique - the poor things where blown to bits after trying to crawl out on bloody stumps once their legs had been removed.
 
Now you have us all confused, you list being in British Columbia which is 1 province west of "The Rock Pile". Someone actually in B.C. would know this

Really - I have lived here for three years, sure I'm relatively new - first time I have heard your terms of endearment for the Rockies....


Personally Mr. "newbie" I think at this point I have a tad more credibility than you as I am fairly well known and what I do, and have done is well documented and has been witnessed or verified by many of the members on this forum.

Same can be said about you - how many times have you been to Africa? How many days have you hunted in Africa? a couple of photographs and some crap about shooting Eland at 1000 meter's makes you a big Game African hunter - who the hell are you again?

Given your attitude here I suspect the North American trade will have little to do with you

With a clientele of over 500 hunters from Europe, Middle and Far East - we really have a full time keeping them happy - we have been there, done that - got the tee shirt with North America trade and all the smelly brown stuff that comes with it!!
 
this is my favorite thread now. It just keeps getting better. Don't give up, I am lovin every minute of it. Respect for both of you! I think maybe you both might get along famously if you met.
 
Kudu said:
and some crap about shooting Eland at 1000 meter's

Given your attitude here I suspect the North American trade will have little to do with you

- we have been there, done that - got the tee shirt with North America trade and all the smelly brown stuff that comes with it!!
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It would seem that reading is not your forte either as I never claimed shooting an Eland at 1000 meters.

I took my Eland at just over 600 yards.

If you are going to quote, at least quote the facts ok??
 
Kudu said:
No it is is simple - 375 H&H or larger, solids only for the Dhaga boys..
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That flies in the face of everything I've ever heard or read, at least in modern times.

Kudu said:
As to our outfit - forget it - we have weened ourselves of the North American trade a while ago - we really do not want your business.
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Do you have a Holland .303 Double Rifle too?

If you're not sure who he is, I'll enlighten you. His name is Rick Timmins and he is the owner of Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply. He is a gunsmith my trade with a specialization (if you want to call it that) in long range precision rifles for both hunting and target uses. Guys that have shot at the BCRA matches know him and have seen him work. Several board members own rifles built by Rick. He's a long time board member and has contributed extensively on the topics of long range hunting and precision rifles. I would hazard that he is deemed credible by the vast majority of board members.

Rick's posted a link to his web page in his sig line and there are enough people on here with credibility who have seen what he builds and can do with a rifle. You, on the other hand, seem only to have an avatar featuring a photoshopped reticle on his chest. You have, to an extent, picked a fight with Dogleg who I have yet to meet personally but I do know that he has been to Africa at least once and has posted evidence. You now seem to know more than Rick and have prattled that any good PH should have sent him packing. Now, I've never hunted with Sandhurst Safaris (who Rick hunted with the last time he was in RSA) but I think that they're pretty well known and respected by the hunting fraternity. His PH may have been skeptical about his abilities (which I imagine all PHs are the first time they meet a hunter) but that was obviously laid to rest when he saw him perform, much the same as most PHs are after they watch the hunter sight in on arrival and watch them successfully take the first animal of the trip.

I suppose my question to you is - why do you feel the need to pontificate about things you know little about without providing proof of credentials? Had you simply said "I'm a PH and I wouldn't allow you to hunt in the manner you've described" then we would have been quite happy with that and said "Fine, I'll find someone else to hunt with". Philosophical disagreements are encouraged, but to attack something that you don't understand (long range hunting) only serves as inflammatory and sets people's minds against you. I think you may have constructive things to offer to this board, but if you come in railing you're likely to close people's minds to what you have to say. That doesn't do any of us any good as, in the end, we're all on the same team here.
 
:D
I smell :bsFlag:BS:bsFlag: in the air!

I'm not quite sure which direction the wind is blowing it in from yet.;)

Should call this thread..................... "Stories From The Dark Continent."

Nothing wrong with a fiction sub-forum where amateur writers can "stretch their literary wings.";)
 
BigUglyMan said:
That flies in the face of everything I've ever heard or read, at least in modern times.



Do you have a Holland .303 Double Rifle too?

If you're not sure who he is, I'll enlighten you. His name is Rick Timmins and he is the owner of Alberta Tactical Rifle Supply. He is a gunsmith my trade with a specialization (if you want to call it that) in long range precision rifles for both hunting and target uses.

.
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No I do not own a Holland and Holland double in .303 - I do, however, own one Holland & Holland double in Calibre .375, Barrel Length 24" And another Holland and Holland hammer less sidelock double rifle in Calibre .577 NE, with 26” barrels.These are however heirlooms from both my father and grandfather.

My weapon of choice these days is Krieghoff's double rifle which I had custom fitted in .470 NE for myself, when I'm in Africa and hunting.


I got my PH licence 34 years ago and have worked in the family business and other outfits in Tanzania, Angola, Botswana, Zambia, Zimbabwe and South Africa.

I don't need to post my name on here - in fact I choose not to. I have hunted and guided more people than I can possibly remember - I have shot and backed more hunter's on the the big five than I care to think about.

Quite frankly I don't care who Rick Timmins is, or what he has done - any one telling the world on a public forum, that it is cool to shoot game at 600 yards in Africa, or any where else for that matter - ************

If that Eland stepped forward or turned to look at a noise behind him - the five foot bullet drive through, would have been right through the guts or up the arse - and this is ethical?

No I don't think so - would I let someone try this in front of me? - I don't think so - Do I want youngsters to read this, and think it is great to try the same, because Mr Rick Timmins of Alberta thinks its OK to hunt this way.

Leave the fancy shots for the TV heroes on wild TV. in real life and in Africa there is no place for them - I have come close to seeing "cowboys" getting gored and trampled - it is not a fun way to spend an afternoon.

I don't give a brass monkeys if you want to shoot Buff with Partitions or any other expanding bullet, go right ahead and do it - You wont get away with it on our concession - but feel free to do it anywhere else you like .
 
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why do people take rifles big enough to hunt Cape Buffalo , Elephant and Hippo to use on Plains game that are Deer and Wapiti size?

I question the professionalism of any White hunter-guide that permits clients to shoot at a game animal 600 yds away. Perhaps this hunt was on a game ranch?
 
I do, however, own one Holland & Holland in Calibre : .375, Barrel Length : 24" And another Holland and Holland hammer less sidelock double rifle in .577 NE,
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Post a picture of the rifles with a penny on them and I'll believe what you are saying about the rifles... :D
 
buckbrush said:
why do people take rifles big enough to hunt Cape Buffalo , Elephant and Hippo to use on Plains game that are Deer and Wapiti size?

QUOTE]
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It makes more sense than hunting buffalo with a rifle you haven't used in the field before. If you want hunting experience with a DGR, you can shoot deer and elk here with it, or deer and elk sized critters there with it.
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Besides, don't buff hunts in RSA come with a complementary can-opener? After all, IIRC private buff herds in RSA have to be tested and certified as disease-free.

I wonder, does one leave the ear-tag in after taxidermy or remove it?
 
Kudu said:
If you want a buff take a 375 H&H with solids - leave the soft tops at home.
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Now this is really interesting. There are some PHs who still hold to the solids for buffs concept, despite the success that has been shown with the new mono-metal and bonded lead core solid shank soft points. Some even believe that you should down load the solid to prevent over penetration when shooting in a tightly bunched herd. I suspect others allow the herd to get their wind so that they begin milling around and are not bunched up quite as tightly. It also makes it easier to find the best head.

I happen to like solids, that is properly designed solids that are short in length with flat or hemispherical noses and parallel sides. But when I hit my buff with the 570 gr X bullet from the .500 it was pretty conclusive; it rugged him and he immediately gave his death bellow. I happen to think the design of a solid is more important than the choice of solid over soft, and there have been solids built over many years that have really stunk. I would have dearly loved to have taken him with the 380 Rhino and/or a 285 gr PMP solid from my .375 Ultra, but it wasn't in the cards.

I wouldn't trade hunting Tanzania's tall grass for RSA's open savanna, due to the adrenalin factor of hunting in the tall grass, but the quality of a hunt is often in proportion to what you put into it, regardless of where you go. But out buff hunt in the long grass was a dream come true and very exciting.

Kudu, as a PH your job is to find a shootable animal for your client, and keep him safe if things go south. Most clients can't shoot for s**t, so his choice of rifle, cartridge, or bullet is pretty much immaterial, as more likely than not the game if hit all all will be wounded. A solid will probably exit, so you have more blood to follow up, but for the client's rifle this is a minor point as it is the PH that will be shooting towards the back end of a running away animal. On dangerous game the PH should hold on the shoulder, and if the shoulder is in his sight picture at his client's shot, he should then fire. I want my PH to be well armed and competent. If his experience suggests solids trump soft points, then that is what I want him to have in his chamber when we make a follow up. Your are there to serve the customer, and if your client can demonstrate without a doubt that he can make a long range shot, and conveys to you at the outset that this is the type of hunting he is interested in, then, if you have accepted his money, you are obliged to do your best for him.
 
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Besides, don't buff hunts in RSA come with a complementary can-opener? After all, IIRC private buff herds in RSA have to be tested and certified as disease-free.
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1) Only heards that are not in certain areas and thats an artifact from cattle ranches. In most of the lowveld the buff are long-standing populations and certainly not quasi-domestic! However it is true that areas with substantional HUNTABLE populations of buff are quite limited (the classic lowveld areas).

2) I think NORMALLY a 600yrd shot is not acceptable but I feel in this case with a client who clearly shoots at those ranges and has the appropriate gear, its a different story, still more like 'sniping' BUT each to his own and clearly he can pull it off competantly. The ethics of this become very blurred, not well defined.

Allow me to relate a similar story form an old PH and ex-boss of mine (Ian Goss). He had a similar client who was a very good long range shooter and was using some super-duper ultra magnum tactical type rig. They too spotted an Eland at 500+ yards and the client said he could take it from there. Ian said NO WAY; waaaayyy to far. The client then asked Ian if he was using a .30-06 and that was a Kudu at 250yrds would he let him shoot..Ian said yes and then realized the guy had essentially asked to extrapolate the proportionate distances, animal sizes and trajectories....needless to say he then aggreed, somewhat relactantly, and the eland was dropped.

I would say that 600yrds is totally out of the question 99% of the time...but I would first learn about the shooter and context before jumping down his throat. VERY few guys have the right gear and more importantly the right skills, but some guys really do. Not my cup of tea but whenever I see the long range guys at work (only a couple of times) its very impressive. We can argue ad nauseum about hunting vs. sniping but in this case the guy appears to be competant in this regard.

3) I have never shot a buff but also know a few guys who have and don't know anyone who used a solid as a first shot for the last 20years. Premium soft first, solids underneath.

Kudu - kalmeer boet, ons almal hou van skiet en jag and party van hierdie ouens is regatig baie ervare, afstaande van waar hulle jag. Cheers.

4) The OP - take both, either will work but a spare is nice to have. If your outfitter does have a loaner rifle that is decent and guarantees it will be available then take just one. However you wouldn't want to have it do down and then learn that the company rilfe is being used elsewhere....
 
ask a simple question get a complicated answer

:mad::mad::mad:Boys you kind of took my warm happy feeling away with this one. I can give you some wonderful African tales that would make you hurl but that was a different time and life. Please feel free moderators to remove this thread as it has not helped me one bit!:mad::mad:
 
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