I agree a big part of it is the quality of scope/rings.. My hunting rifle has fallen over and I've slipped and bumped the scope directly, its always held zero. Meanwhile my .17 hmr with a much cheaper scope and rings fell over once and was knocked out of zero.
How much care do you take when handling your rifle?
- Thread starter Roddy
- Start date
Remington 700 LTR, in AICS chassis, one piece Near base, TPS scope rings & Vortex Viper PST with Butler Creek Flip Ups. No case and strapped to seat frame in truck. Rides on rough logging roads all day long in my work truck carried on quads and snowmobiles regularly only wrapped in a coat. Again strapped to the quad or sled. Carried in the rear compartment of a Bell 205 Jet Ranger again only wrapped in a coat. I Never ever have I had a shift of zero or any failures of scope or rifle. Yes there are some significant usage marks (stock, scope turrets, bolt lift) some may call it "abuse" but nothing serious that affects performance. Only significant "oh crap" moments where it fell where it leaning against a bench and out of a choppers storage compartment when door was opened....fell three feet or so but fall was broken when it hit my thigh. Hope that indicates to you how normal field usage affects my particular type of rifle.
A Jet Ranger is a 206.
All of my firearms are tools. They get used, they get scratched, they get banged up. My stocks get scratched from putting them directly on rocks and concrete walls, scope turrets get used as barricade stops, stuff gets marked with paint markers, gets drilled and tapped, milled if necessary. At matches they get thrown in the back or trucks and on ATVs. Some rifles don't get cleaned for hundreds of rounds, sometimes they sit in the safe dirty for weeks. Have only lost zero after getting copper built-up, which takes hundreds of rounds when the barrel is new, less as the barrel ages.
This chassis was a month old and had seen one match when this photo was taken.
Good equipment will hold up to real world use.
This chassis was a month old and had seen one match when this photo was taken.
Good equipment will hold up to real world use.
I try to baby my guns. They cost too God damn much to just toss around. Yes they're a tool, and as many have said on here, they are meant to be abused as they should be able to handle it. But when I'm paying for my gun, I try to keep the finish on it clean and looking good for as long I can. No different than your vehicle. Yeah if you get a ding on it, it sucks, but not the end of the world either. I guess it just depends on where people value their toys in life. Some people baby their dirt bikes and others value their precious vehicles, waxing them every week in their garage while having a Cuban in their mouth lol
- and yes, the boys over seas don't walk around with pelican cases, but they also didn't drop 4 thousand on the unit they are walking around with either. Different when you pay for things.
- and yes, the boys over seas don't walk around with pelican cases, but they also didn't drop 4 thousand on the unit they are walking around with either. Different when you pay for things.
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Probably not as much as I should.
When handling AR's with durable optics (Elcan... or open sights) I really don't give it to much thought. However when using say a hunting rifle with a reasonably good (but probably less durable) scope I will be concerned with two things and they are the muzzle and the zero.
Otherwise as tools they should be treated as such, saying that I try to take care in case of re-sale and/or reliability of all my more complex tools (ie. firearms/power tools...).
After having spent some time in our Canadian Reserve Army it quickly became apparent how tough a quality rifle (=Colt Canada) and quality optic (=Elcan...) can be.
It actually is quite amazing to witness rifles being dropped (accidentally, yet hitting the ground quite hard) on concrete etc. and still keep zero/reliabilty w/o any visible damage (other then perhaps a scratch/small blemish).
I always respect my tools/toys etc. and try not to abuse them, however I do get satisfaction from buying quality items knowing they will take a good amount of abuse before any issues arise.
One final thing I'll say is that having used scopes from the seventies until today is that this area of firearms equipment has improved tremendously with regards to durability/reliability/maintaining zero/anti-fogging etc. So sometimes I still find myself taking more care then is really necessary with scoped rifles (particularly rifles with scopes of lesser quality then say an Elcan or NightForce for example).
Cheers D
When handling AR's with durable optics (Elcan... or open sights) I really don't give it to much thought. However when using say a hunting rifle with a reasonably good (but probably less durable) scope I will be concerned with two things and they are the muzzle and the zero.
Otherwise as tools they should be treated as such, saying that I try to take care in case of re-sale and/or reliability of all my more complex tools (ie. firearms/power tools...).
After having spent some time in our Canadian Reserve Army it quickly became apparent how tough a quality rifle (=Colt Canada) and quality optic (=Elcan...) can be.
It actually is quite amazing to witness rifles being dropped (accidentally, yet hitting the ground quite hard) on concrete etc. and still keep zero/reliabilty w/o any visible damage (other then perhaps a scratch/small blemish).
I always respect my tools/toys etc. and try not to abuse them, however I do get satisfaction from buying quality items knowing they will take a good amount of abuse before any issues arise.
One final thing I'll say is that having used scopes from the seventies until today is that this area of firearms equipment has improved tremendously with regards to durability/reliability/maintaining zero/anti-fogging etc. So sometimes I still find myself taking more care then is really necessary with scoped rifles (particularly rifles with scopes of lesser quality then say an Elcan or NightForce for example).
Cheers D
Dropping a rifle on a concrete parade square is good way to get noticed as the 'village idiot' in an infantry unit! The general rule of thumb is..you better hit the pavement before your rifle does. Any soldier that deliberately abuses his equipment...especially his personal weapon will be charged. The army understands that under certain conditions extreme action can cause damage to weapons. But it better not be carelessness or thoughtlessness.
I am certainly intrigued by what people think is acceptable care of a firearm...particularly one you may wish to sell one day on ee...or that putting game on the table or winning a match may depend. As for military use and care of a personal weapon..this is a discussion not worth having imo.
Just to add...if you spend a lot of time in helicopters make sure you loctite critical fasteners (ie screws, bolts etc) and particularly small screws in optics...the vibration in some rotary wing aircraft can loosen a lot of items over time....as I have experienced.
I am certainly intrigued by what people think is acceptable care of a firearm...particularly one you may wish to sell one day on ee...or that putting game on the table or winning a match may depend. As for military use and care of a personal weapon..this is a discussion not worth having imo.
Just to add...if you spend a lot of time in helicopters make sure you loctite critical fasteners (ie screws, bolts etc) and particularly small screws in optics...the vibration in some rotary wing aircraft can loosen a lot of items over time....as I have experienced.
Thanks for all the replies. I am genuinely curious how much rough a military precision rifle would be able to take and still hold zero.
If someone indvertantly drops a C14 Timberwolf four feet onto a hard surface and it's scope breaks the fall would they still trust it to take a critical shot that pushes the accuracy limits of the rifle?
I find the military's standards particularly interesting as they usually do extensive durability testing of their equipment and the end user doesn't have to resell it when he's done with it.
There are so many torture tests of service rifles and sidearms but those guns are pretty black and white. Either they work or they broke. I think the information would be useful. For example I bought a Spuhr mount but I could not find any testing to tell me if it is in fact worth the money.
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Different militaries specify different requirements when they run trials. I remember two specific requirements from past European trials. The rifles has to take a 1 meter fall onto concrete butt first and hold zero. The rifles were hosed down with water, placed into a freezer overnight and the bolt had to open and function the next morning.
The 1 meter drop test onto the butt is fairly standard during goverment trials from what I understand.
In actual service treating your weapon carelessly will get you a reprimand as AP pointed out.
I'm pretty careful with my scoped rifles, as none of the scopes are particularly, ahem,.. 'Top of the Line'.
While I don't toss any of my firearms around and always treat a tool like I want it to work just as well the next time I need it, the iron-sight gang get a more casual handling.
While I don't toss any of my firearms around and always treat a tool like I want it to work just as well the next time I need it, the iron-sight gang get a more casual handling.
Some of my guns I treat like glass (sentimental and dream guns). Others I beat on hard, train how you fight. If I go to the range with my Norc CQA and M&P9. They go in a hard cash and then come out and literally tossed on the table sometimes. My Enfield No4T clone, hard case until ready to shoot then back to case.
As far as I'm concerned sooner or later your gun will get bumped.
The trick is to ensure that your rifle is outfitted so that when it does get bumped, it does not lose zero.
Start by making sure the scope rail is part of the receiver and not a screw on afterthought, like a Rem 700 for example.
Those tiny scope screws will not hold over time + rounds fired + inadvertent impacts. (and no... lok tite will not save you)
Sako and Tikka both have a nice tapered rail that holds axis no mater what.
Surgeon is another example and there are plenty of others.
Just beware of actions with screw on scope rails as your first line of defense.
On the other hand... I have heard of guys having scope rails silver soldered to Rem 700 actions though, to both overcome this problem and stiffen the action for better accuracy.
A guy with a Rem 700 could glue on the scope rail using JB Weld as a half measure short of silver solder. It can always be separated with a high heat blow dryer like they use to strip paint.
The trick is to ensure that your rifle is outfitted so that when it does get bumped, it does not lose zero.
Start by making sure the scope rail is part of the receiver and not a screw on afterthought, like a Rem 700 for example.
Those tiny scope screws will not hold over time + rounds fired + inadvertent impacts. (and no... lok tite will not save you)
Sako and Tikka both have a nice tapered rail that holds axis no mater what.
Surgeon is another example and there are plenty of others.
Just beware of actions with screw on scope rails as your first line of defense.
On the other hand... I have heard of guys having scope rails silver soldered to Rem 700 actions though, to both overcome this problem and stiffen the action for better accuracy.
A guy with a Rem 700 could glue on the scope rail using JB Weld as a half measure short of silver solder. It can always be separated with a high heat blow dryer like they use to strip paint.
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BadAsMo that's a good idea to anchor your rail to your action with glue or something. Mine is somewhere in between integral and screwed on as it is factory installed but uses screws. I tried to take it off and I can't so it might be glued too!
Oh ya... one more thing
If you want to do a nice rail glue job you can drill a pair of shallow holes between the pair of rail screws.
Drill just deep enough for half the diameter of a small ball bearing and just one drill size larger than the ball bearing.
Drill corresponding holes on both the action and the rail.
Then you glue it with the ball bearings in place to anchor the position. The epoxy will be thin so compression will be minimal.
You need to consider action deflection. An action like a Rem 700 is so cleared away that there is actually very little steel to prevent it from bending like a banana under recoil and barrel vibration. Those tiny scope rail screws are in the wrong direction to control that when you consider the leverage and the small amount of movement that adds up over time.
To hold zero real well over a long time, you need to think about such things.
If you want to do a nice rail glue job you can drill a pair of shallow holes between the pair of rail screws.
Drill just deep enough for half the diameter of a small ball bearing and just one drill size larger than the ball bearing.
Drill corresponding holes on both the action and the rail.
Then you glue it with the ball bearings in place to anchor the position. The epoxy will be thin so compression will be minimal.
You need to consider action deflection. An action like a Rem 700 is so cleared away that there is actually very little steel to prevent it from bending like a banana under recoil and barrel vibration. Those tiny scope rail screws are in the wrong direction to control that when you consider the leverage and the small amount of movement that adds up over time.
To hold zero real well over a long time, you need to think about such things.
