How much difference does the gun make?

[Jonny_Cannon]

I think the equipment does make a bit of a difference. I can tell the difference between my 870 and my Benelli M-4. By no means am I a pro shooter, but a better gun is easier to use well.

I had a Ducati once. I must say those bikes have the best of the best from the factory. My fastest times through The Dragon were on that bike. By no means am I a pro rider. It just made it easier to do better.

Cannon

 

[abb1]

I find that overall it is technique and skill that makes the shooter. However, equipment does also calculate in there, but it is not the determining factor.

 

[Spirit_Bear]

The handgun that you use needs to fit the size of your hands, and work with your body structure. Can you operate the magazine release without changing your grip? Does your index finger contact the trigger at a point where you can perform a proper press and reset? Is the pistol "flat" (i.e. are the sights aligned vertically) when you present it naturally?

Like lots of folks have already written, it's also important to find something that works and train regularly. It's like the old joke: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice, practice, practice."

 

[TACTICAL111]

I was probably wanting some justification for a Shadow 2 purchase...

My first post was true IMO. lol.

I bought a CZ2, 3 weeks ago, and I don't even shoot Production.

Was in the market again for a 9mm semi. Running Standard Major with my Tang Limited Custom @ 180 pf takes it's toll over the years. Not to mention Revo Major @ 190pf prior to that.
If I'm buying a 9mm, and got the cash, may as well be the one that I can take and stomp away in Prod division.

Buy it already. It's worth it.

 

[grimreefer]

It is tempting. Walked into my LGS a couple days ago for some ammo...

Salesperson: "Hey, you look like you're in the market for a new gun."

Me: "Nope!"

Salesperson: "Are you sure? Are you sure you don't want to have a look at that one there with the blue grips?"

Wtf universe...I can't afford this gun. I should not buy this gun. Okay I could maybe afford the gun but then I have to buy mags and a holster...and everytime I buy a new gun the wife sees it as a license to spend an equal amount of money on something she wants....I should not buy this gun!

 

[Kidd X]

If you think improving your splits and transitions WON'T win you a match then you have a flawed understanding of competitive shooting. Transitions, whether between targets or between firearms in multigun disciplines, are absolutely key! Good consistent splits are also very important.

If you are shooting a single gun discipline a key is to work on your target transitions until they are as close as possible to your splits.......that is a basic building block to improving overall speed.

Foot speed and all that is important but I have seen a lot of older guys kick the crap out of younger guys just because of their splits and transitions (of either variety)......and how they use the time between target engagements.

John

Show me match results where the top four competitors were all within 3-5 seconds of one another, all shooting clean stages and I might give you the benefit of the doubt that their splits were the determining factor and not their plan to shoot the stage, their athletic prowess, the speed in which they engaged the first target etc etc. Matches are won and lost on administrative crap like reloads or malfunction clearing. A close second place factor in losing is failing to engage all targets or shooting a "no shoot" target. Either of the aforementioned booboos will cost your more time than you will likely make up throughout the day. Your only hope is that the competition makes as many or more serious mistakes.

I always thought a different gun would make me a better shooter. After lots of wasted money on latest and greatest, and a few years of developing bad habits, I saw one of the pro shooters shoot my gun.

That was a turning point in my shooting. Gun helps but countless hours of practice is what really does it.

Good gun removes the excuse of me not to practice, but it does not make me a better/good shooter.

Another winner here!!

I think that is what's key here.... The diminishing returns of equipment upgrades... I tend to think that any handgun in action shooting needs to have decent sights and a semi decent trigger to perform, and be 100% reliable .... But things like a flared magwell improve performance much less so.

However... There always seems to be the idea that any gun is good enough when the requisite skills are there, I disagree with that notion and it seems to me that people are handicapping themselves with that attitude

Absolutely true. A reliable handgun with a predictable and repeatable trigger is all that is needed. Oh and some decent sights, not plastic ones that fall off or move around.

yep, agree with you. That's why I said:

"poor equipment + good technique = good performance
good equipment + good technique = great performance"

It's all relative though. To an D or C class shooter, a good versus a "great" gun won't make much of a difference, while training and good technique will make a significant difference. A B/A class shooter has good technique already, so they will notice more improvement with something purpose built for our sport. I'm not sure the M/GM's are actually human ....

The top shooters will see more of an improvement for sure, but that amount is still minimal. If you're at the level then you aren't in this discussion asking questions.

I find that overall it is technique and skill that makes the shooter. However, equipment does also calculate in there, but it is not the determining factor.

Absolutely! I watched a buddy shoot 2 of 4 stages at a three gun match with a completely un zeroed rifle. He made ZERO hits on two stages and still ranked half way up the pack. It's the shooter more than the gear.

The handgun that you use needs to fit the size of your hands, and work with your body structure. Can you operate the magazine release without changing your grip? Does your index finger contact the trigger at a point where you can perform a proper press and reset? Is the pistol "flat" (i.e. are the sights aligned vertically) when you present it naturally?

Like lots of folks have already written, it's also important to find something that works and train regularly. It's like the old joke: "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice, practice, practice."

More uninformed misinformation. The "fit" of a handgun is a gimmick. I'm betting the majority on this forum have no idea what to look for when it comes to a proper "fit" as most people go off of "feel" which is a personal opinion and has no bearing on performance. Another aspect to why "fit" is a gimmick relates to youths who compete or even some men and women who have very small hands. I have seen a good number of young kids(10-14)with full size guns absolutely demolish adults.

This guy has no hands so I guess "fit" is out for him... He seems to do alright.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3OY00Acpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFYBJlg8Nb8

 

[1riot1ranger]

Oh, and FYI...the entire IPSC Canada Production team headed to the Worlds in France this year are shooting Tanfoglio ...

This is interesting news....

When will you be announcing the hardware for the Classic Team?

 

[Spirit_Bear]

More uninformed misinformation.

Uninformed? Misinformation? Really?

So I guess the folks at Gunsite Academy, the Smith & Wesson Shooting Sports Center, and every IALEFI Instructor I've ever spoken to are wrong, eh?

Please, Kidd X, share the source of your wisdom with us.

 

[Freedom Ventures]

This is interesting news....

When will you be announcing the hardware for the Classic Team?

LOL...

Here's the best part...I didn't have anything to do with the best IPSC production shooters in Canada's decision
to chose to shoot these days; they chose Tanfoglio on their own.

Nor did I have anything to do with what guns the IPSC Canadian Classic Team has all chosen - which, I am pretty
sure - are all STI International

The best amateurs choose the best equipment to help them with success.
Pros are a different story - they can make just about anything work when they're shooting 80-100K rounds a year.

 

[Horse96]

Okay, I'm new to competition, but I can tell that splits and transitions are a pretty big part of the equation. Of course if my stage planning, execution, fundamentals/accuracy, reloads, and movement are crap, then sure...splits and transitions don't mean much. I am not under the impression that the tool itself will win a match.

I'll help! Buy the shadow 2. The grip checkering is excellent for grip. Way better than grip tape.

I'm not so sure about the whole split time (milliseconds per shot) vs stage planning that could shave seconds off. It is a debate, that's for sure. But what I am sure about is I've watched guys that look slow, but they are so smooth that their times are so quick. Last year I managed a few stages where I was in the 'smooth zone' and posted great times on those stages.

Be smooth. Smooth is fast.

 

[wasrupzuk]

My first pistol was a Ruger P85...
Many other varieties followed; polymers, 1911's, 2011's, revolvers and now a Shadow.
Yes, the archer is the main part of the equation but in my opinion, with out a doubt, the platform matters.
Lots of wrong ones out there, but what is wrong for me isn't necessarily wrong for you.

 

[sentian]

If you don't like the gun or if the grip is uncomfortable or if the recoil is far too much, you'll never shoot well. The same goes with any of your gear. If your hat or shoes or glasses are uncomfortable or hindering your focus, you'll shoot poorly. Generally speaking, it is wise to find a pistol that feels good in your hands compared to others, and stick with it.

 

[grimreefer]

I think I picked one of the worst pistols in terms of recoil. Since I started this thread I've done some searching on the P99's recoil vs other pistol design, and the opinion is always that the P99 has more muzzle flip than...any other 9mm it's compared to lol. It's the high bore axis. To put it into perspective, I shot someone's .45 1911 at the range a few weeks ago, and I did not notice more recoil than my 9mm P99. I love the ergos and trigger of the P99 and I have had zero malfunctions or issues.

Anyhow, I'm going to try to somehow learn to tame it for this season I think. I've got 2,500 rounds on it, a good firm high grip, support wrist locked forward, grip tape...still pretty tough to keep sights on target. I think I'll be saving my pennies for the Shadow 2.