How much of a step up is it going from a Norc 1911 Police Model to an STI Spartan?

[CanuckShooter]

Is it just a shimmy to the side or is it a huge step up in terms of fit, finish, and function when comparing a Norinco 1911 Police Model to an STI Spartan? I am talking about everything from the small details, like uniform/even machining, to the function and durability. Please note that this question is directed towards those who have both shot, and owned (or closely inspected) both guns.

I have never heard anyone compare the NEW Norincos to the STI Spartan. I have heard some say that the standard Norcs feel more solid, and that you can tell the Spartan is cast as soon as you hold it. Which almost right away steers me away from the Spartan.

Perhaps I have been brainwashed from reading all the posts here and elsewhere from the purists who make it sound like a forged frame is the be all end all, and cast is vastly inferior. Either way, I just can't wrap my head around paying twice the price for a gun with a cast frame with all this Norinco 5100 forged steel buzz (even thought Gunnar has stated in posts that a good cast frame like the one on the Spartan is extremely durable). BUT...... on the other hand I don't ever seem to be content with the Norc Police Models I have owned.

Examples of things that I have a hard time overlooking are like how the frame around the grip safety never fits properly. The rear edges of the frame on each side of the grip safety jut out when the safety is depressed, are very sharp, and seem to be unevenly machined. Really makes the web of my hand sore after a while. Or how the barrel hood rubs against the breechface leaving scratches/marks, etc, etc....

I won't go on and on, because this is not a Norinco bashing thread. I am quite sure that the guns themselves are far more accurate than I could ever shoot them, and probably last forever due to the super tough steel. But is there anyone here who stepped up to a Spartan for the same reaons as I am listing? Were you glad you did? Or was it not the step up that you had thought it would be?

I obviously can't afford an STI Trojan, or Kimber..... I would just really like a well made, durable, quality 1911 for $1000 or under that I can be proud to own 'as is'. I would also be appreciative if someone could undo this 'anti-cast' spell that has fallen upon me lol

Any opinions, advice or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bobbyhill]

I have an sti man you cant compare its a whole other world .

 

[CanuckShooter]

You have the Spartan?

You can't just leave me hanging like that with a few words! lol More info!

 

[kyle87t]

delete

 

[kyle87t]

From all of the collective information I have gathered over the past several months, I would say that an Armco tuned Norinco 1911 is a great choice for the money.

If you want to build your own gun using upgrades afterward than this is the 1911 for you. If you want something that skips the DIY part and slaps a nice fit and finish on there, then get the STI Spartan.

With the extra money saved with the Norinco you could buy lots of ammo to practice with. If you don't like the Norinco, just put it on the EE and you should get 85% of what you paid for it. It is truly a "high value" pistol.


Edit: Just upgrade the Norinco through Armco since he sells everything. He would probably do a deal sinve you would be purchasing a firearm. Let's not forget, forged rules!

 

[bear.23]

OK.. A 1911 is a 1911 .. I feel like one of those guys saying "all synthetic oils are the same" and there is a Scottish guy in the background coming at me..

However fit, finish, polish and and materials will vary... The norcs are a fine gun they will serve you just fine.. you may need to replace some of the MIM innards at some point..

The STI's are really smooth in comparison to the norcs.. But you pay for it and you really don't see some of the places where the STI's do all the work on..

 

[Silverado]

If you don't have a problem with the Chinese origin of the Norinco, get one tuned up from Armco; I've never heard a bad thing said about one of Gunnar's units.

 

[Canuck44]

OK.. A 1911 is a 1911 .. I feel like one of those guys saying "all synthetic oils are the same" and there is a Scottish guy in the background coming at me..

However fit, finish, polish and and materials will vary... The norcs are a fine gun they will serve you just fine.. you may need to replace some of the MIM innards at some point..

The STI's are really smooth in comparison to the norcs.. But you pay for it and you really don't see some of the places where the STI's do all the work on..

What MIM parts? My three were all forged throughout. The Norincos aren't bad out of the box and with a $500 workover they can be made outstanding. Dlask did mine and it is a real shooter. The Spartan is not a Trojan by any means and isn't much of a step up from the new Norincos. Both the Spartan and the Norcs require a decent trigger job so pick your price point and have at it.

My advice of you are young with a young family is go the Norinco route and overtime do the work you think you want done. Norinco's are one gun Wilson Combat have for years listed as one they will customize. Kimber has, to my knowledge never made the list. Says something abuot the quality of the Norinco frames and slides.

Take Care

Bob

 

[bear.23]

What MIM parts? My three were all forged throughout. The Norincos aren't bad out of the box and with a $500 workover they can be made outstanding. Dlask did mine and it is a real shooter. The Spartan is not a Trojan by any means and isn't much of a step up from the new Norincos. Both the Spartan and the Norcs require a decent trigger job so pick your price point and have at it.

My advice of you are young with a young family is go the Norinco route and overtime do the work you think you want done. Norinco's are one gun Wilson Combat have for years listed as one they will customize. Kimber has, to my knowledge never made the list. Says something abuot the quality of the Norinco frames and slides.

Take Care

Bob

I was sure there were issues with the some of the small parts on the Norcs.. Either soft metal or mim.. I could be wrong.. I've not worn out any parts on the one I have.. But I'm not shooting them that much either..

 

[TacticalDan]

i have a kimber and 2 spartan i got from guunar ,i also had a nork police model and i can tell u its cr@p sold it after only an hour after it was delivered to my house do your self a favor and get a spartan grom gunnar you wont be disapointed.

 

[xxclaro]

i have a kimber and 2 spartan i got from guunar ,i also had a nork police model and i can tell u its cr@p sold it after only an hour after it was delivered to my house do your self a favor and get a spartan grom gunnar you wont be disapointed.

An hour? Did you shoot it? Just wondering how bad it had to be to sell it after an hour. I have one, and it's great. Functions very well, accuracy is excellent, price is right, what more do you want? Sure, internal surfaces are a little rough, and the finish isn't as nice as STI or Para's or anything, but I bought the gun to shoot,not look pretty.

 

[1GLOCKAHOLIC]

Looks and finish matter

Sure, internal surfaces are a little rough, and the finish isn't as nice as STI or Para's or anything, but I bought the gun to shoot,not look pretty.

Personally looks do matter to me the gun needs to be smooth have a nice finish and nice lines, if I don't care for the appearance of gun I wouldn't buy it no matter the price. After all you wouldn't marry a bone ugly women just cause she was a good cook would you

 

[bear.23]

Personally looks do matter to me the gun needs to be smooth have a nice finish and nice lines, if I don't care for the appearance of gun I wouldn't buy it no matter the price. After all you wouldn't marry a bone ugly women just cause she was a good cook would you

I guess It all depends on what you are buying/marrying for.. My guns are used in competition, testing, personal achievement their looks aren't all them important to me..

 

[1GLOCKAHOLIC]

No but if your shooting IDPA or IPSC I'm sure your comp gun isn't a norc.

 

[bear.23]

No but if your shooting IDPA or IPSC I'm sure your comp gun isn't a norc.

My IPSC gun is a springfield.. I've used a glock and a norinco as well...

my PPC guns are smiths and glocks.

 

[Canuck44]

No but if your shooting IDPA or IPSC I'm sure your comp gun isn't a norc.

My CDP gun for IDPA is Norc, at least the slide and frame are. The rest is the best.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Wendell]

My IPSC gun is a springfield.. I've used a glock and a norinco as well...

my PPC guns are smiths and glocks.

My CDP gun for IDPA is Norc, at least the slide and frame are. The rest is the best.

Take Care

Bob

I don't know what you use for visits to the USA, but I do know what you don't use for visits to the USA - your forged-frame Norinco. (Because the Norinco isn't welcome anymore. The STI, on the other hand, is welcome.)

That's a step up, right there.

 

[Wolfstrack]

I had before 1911 Norcs, 2 of them in both size and never been happy with the looks and quality, sh**ty manuf. ....now they are history.
I'll vote for a Spartan only if I have to choose btw Norc and Spartan, but on the long run go for a Kimber, Trojan or a US made Springfield if you have the bucks.

 

[Justins1877]

An hour? Did you shoot it? Just wondering how bad it had to be to sell it after an hour. I have one, and it's great. Functions very well, accuracy is excellent, price is right, what more do you want? Sure, internal surfaces are a little rough, and the finish isn't as nice as STI or Para's or anything, but I bought the gun to shoot,not look pretty.

Bwhahaa... Are you seriously comparing a Nork to a STI in accuracy and function?
I had a Nork myself, I thought it was a decent little pistol - till I took it to the range the next mornning.
True it does function pretty good, I fed it over 700 rounds a mixed reloads, hollow points, TC, FMJ, everything from 230 grain to 185 grain. It had no problem chambering and ejecting the used brass.

However, that gun is a peice of dog #### when it comes to hitting something that is 10 feet away. I might have well thrown the gun at the target.
Sold.
Bought 2 new better 1911's.

 

[Canuck44]

I don't know what you use for visits to the USA, but I do know what you don't use for visits to the USA - your forged-frame Norinco. (Because the Norinco isn't welcome anymore. The STI, on the other hand, is welcome.)

That's a step up, right there.

I shoot SSP in the main when shooting IDPA. You are correct the Norinco cannot be exported to the US to shoot in competitions so anyone wishing to shoot IDPA in the US will have to look elsewhere for a 1911 in .45acp if he/she wishes to shoot IDPA in the US.

This doesn't speak to the quality value of the Norinco 1911 pisol. For somebody starting out in shooting or getting into IDPA and wants to shoot CDP the Norincos certainly fit the bill. Add $500 worth of upgrades completed by a competant 'smith and they can be made into outstanding shooters.

The determing factor in all of this is what do you intend to do with the gun. The STI Spartan is a solid 1911 and comes it at a little higher price point. That doesn't make it better or worse, just aimed at a different market.

The nice thing about our present situation is we have choices. Buy what you want in a pistol with your only limitation being your budget.

Take Care

Bob