How much precision can be achieved with an AR-15?

Average is not so good as I still have a very hard time sitting still for too long. More .75moa with FGMM> My biggest was like 2moa as I threw a shot way out (twitched?). Only have like 6 boxes of match down the barrel.

55gr AE best group in a five shot group was .68moa and average was 1.25 moa before the free floater and 2.5moa with Ranger 64gr-(380+rds) Benched

Just started to bench (bi-pod and rear bag) my AR with a Timney 3# trigger so I am sure with a little work from me things will get better/more consistant.

A match upper will have a much tighter chamber and a higher quality barrel with a tighter install to the upper plus a whole lot of witchcraft thrown in- ie reloads:) Not the best if you crawl in the dirt and gravel with it. A true 1/4 moa AR is a whole different story and requires a better shooter than I am right now. Sub 1 moa should be well within everyones grasp with todays target 16" upper-yes-no?
 
rnbra-shooter said:
I have a bone stock Colt AR-15 Sporter. A2 style, carry handle, medium weight barrel, non-floated handguard, 1-7" twist, factory chamber, etc.

It is an honest 2.75 MOA rifle.

(This is ten shots into 2.7-3.0" at 100m, time after time; with very good ammo, handloads with Sierra 77 Matchking, Hornady 68 BTHP, Nosler 55 BT; fired off of a benchrest with a rear sandbag, and with a 20X Leupold target scope).
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Thanks for an honest statement of accuracy. Waaay better then most can shoot from field positions, and certainly good for what sounds to be a rack grade rifle.

Discussions of small roundcount groups, especially with "fliers", and with floating accuracy drives me nutz.
 
icedragonmx said:
Story behind your comment?
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Have you read what he posts on AR15? He is ignorant beyond belief. The person as an individual is a religious zealot extremist. He is extremely narrow minded and believes in the literal word of scripture, but only his exact version of such. I find the guy really offensive. He seems to have a sort of protected status over there, many have been demanding he gets banned.

His testing btw is little more than anecdotal amateur hour.

As for the AR, if you look at some of the competitors who shoot it, clearly it can be made extremely accurate. I have ordered a case of Federal 77g Gold Medal match BTHPs, this is suppose to be the best factory ammo you can get. Ill post how my accurized SPR does once it arrives.
 
wicked_police said:
Holy money bags!!!

lol
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Go big or go home! :p

Sides whats the cost of ammo compared to the monstrosity that its feeding. The rifle so far does not like 55 American Eagle or White box at all...Like using a shotgun. :D

I bought a chrony, so once I get a few more things Ill start reloading.
 
I have a bone stock Colt A2 H-bar competition (flattop) model. I can show you a target I recently shot at 100 yards from a bench using 60 gr HP hand loads. I was shooting fairly rapid fire (less than 5 sec/shot) and did a mag change. The 10 shot group measures a bit under 1 1/8".
 
Power Pill said:
mind if i ask were you got that ammo from? :)
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Epps has the following in stock as of Friday.

Hornady Tap 75
Remington Match 77 BTHP
Federal Gold Medal Match Sierra 77 BTHP

I did a bunch of searches and the Federal GMM seems to be ranked very high. I could not find anybody who had tested and reviewed the Remington match ammo. The Hornady is the cheapest of the three by alot.

Depending upon twist you might want lighter stuff. Theres Federal GMM in 69 BTHP, but Epps was all out of that right now.

They have alot of other stuff, but I just enquired about match type ammo in the 70-80 range.
 
USP said:
Have you read what he posts on AR15? He is ignorant beyond belief. The person as an individual is a religious zealot extremist. He is extremely narrow minded and believes in the literal word of scripture, but only his exact version of such. I find the guy really offensive.
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I have not really noticed any of the above, but I will not dispute view as I do no know the guy. I posted as it answered the guys question. What can be reasonbly expected from an AR-15. 1 MOA with handloads to 6 MOA with some surplus and everything in between.
 
icedragonmx said:
Average is not so good as I still have a very hard time sitting still for too long. More .75moa with FGMM> My biggest was like 2moa as I threw a shot way out (twitched?). Only have like 6 boxes of match down the barrel.

55gr AE best group in a five shot group was .68moa and average was 1.25 moa before the free floater and 2.5moa with Ranger 64gr-(380+rds) Benched

Just started to bench (bi-pod and rear bag) my AR with a Timney 3# trigger so I am sure with a little work from me things will get better/more consistant.

A match upper will have a much tighter chamber and a higher quality barrel with a tighter install to the upper plus a whole lot of witchcraft thrown in- ie reloads:) Not the best if you crawl in the dirt and gravel with it. A true 1/4 moa AR is a whole different story and requires a better shooter than I am right now. Sub 1 moa should be well within everyones grasp with todays target 16" upper-yes-no?
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You have a very nice shooting AR if it can give you groups in the MOA'ish range more often then not. I would expect proper handloads to really show positive results.

Thanks for the info about the match upper. I concur - better chamber, better barrel, better assembly. Add in some match bullets in properly tuned ammo, and it should shoot.

I have seen pics of 1/4 min groups at 100yds in the various mags. Very impressive for sure but again, I wonder if these rifles could keep that level over several groups.

I have no doubt a true sub MOA AR can be built. Just how 'sub MOA', I am unsure of at this time.

Jerry
 
With a tactical, not a target style AR,you can probably get down to about 1.5 MOA with decent issue surplus ammo.
With handloads you could probably cut it down more.Having been to Bisley with the CF a couple of times I can tell you
that when you have the 16 best service rifle shooters and NONE of them shot 10 round groups under 1.5 inches at 100m,
you can safely asume that while there are some fluky small groups occasionally shot, the average is going to be around
2-3 minutes on average.
 
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mysticplayer said:
but you better believe that your chamber - especially your throat dimensions - are absolutely critical to the accuracy potential of a rifle.
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This simply is not true. There are plenty of barrels with Nato cut chambers and even chrome lining to boot that shoot as good or better than some 'match' grade barrels.
Case in point are the Colt competition guns all (that I know of) have Nato chambers and are chrome lined.

My whole point is that just because barrel 'x' has a 7 twist and barrel 'y' has a 9 twist doesn't mean one is going to shoot over the other. Same goes for the length, the profile, the chamber, chrome lining, hammer forged v. cut rifling, etc, etc. the list is endless.
If someone wants to see what their barrel will do, feed it the absolute best ammo they can find (and a variety of it too) and bench it.
There is going to be far too much variation if you shoot Winchester White box or surplus ammo for the testing - this is not going to be an accurate tale of what the barrel/rifle is capable of.
Even benched there is the human element that most can not get rid of.

Even if shooting match ammo or bench shooting is not indicitive of how people are going to use their rifle (perhaps shooting ball ammo at three gun or SR competitions), it does give valueable data for future use. (maybe like when you want to gauge its lifespan after a few tens of thousands of rounds through it).
 
Power Pill said:
I know its safe to shoot .223rem in a 5.56 nato barrel, but would doing so affect accuracy?
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Below is data on several 223 reamers, including several Nato variations

The major differences is in the base diameter, freebore diameter, and freebore length. Simply put the Nato chamber is 'sloppier', this is for good reason as military chambers are meant to function in the presence of dirt and under less than ideal situations. The generous freebore length will accommodate different bullets such as M193(55gn ball), XM287 (68gn ball), M855 (62gn ball), Mk262 (77gn BTHP)...etc

If all other things are equal then the Nato chamber will be less accurate than a match 223 chamber because of the generous freebore diameter and length. For many rifles this may not be a practical limitation to accuracy

The freebore diameter and length are important because when a bullet leaves the case and enters the throat, and then the bore the bullet is ‘moulded’ If the bullet enters the throat slightly off axis then the bullet will be reformed with a centerline out axis with the axis of rotation, this can change the flight of the bullet and have detrimental effects on accuracy.

The larger the freebore diameter and longer the throat the more likely the bullet will enter the bore off axis.

If you look at the Wylde chamber you will see freebore diameter is .2240, this will permit a snug slipfit of the bullet into the throat, but there will be no room for any dirt, or for a bullet slightly out of spec, (.2244 for instance), the freebore length is long, this is to allow the long 90gn vld’s to seat close to the lands for improved accuracy. This is a great match chamber but not much use in a muddy battle field




AR15Reamers.jpg
 
Decided to post some data on this thread.

Below are result from my Norinco CQ-M4, it is unmodified and I am using a Russian NOCON Fixed x42 scope with a Type JJJ Reticle

Ammo was IVI milsup, recent production (I think)

Fired from a bench at 100 yards with a sandbag for a rest under the mag.

I had already fired 40 rounds prior to doing this test.

I fired 2 rounds at the centre (shown as centre picture) and then moved up and left 2 clicks then up and right... to walk thru all 4 quadrants (5 shots in each quadrant)

Then back to the centre for a final 2 shots.

Given the squishy trigger (and the occasional flinch from having a muzzle braked 30-06 next to me) I have excluded the worst shot for each group I fired.






SharonSept2010.jpg




Type JJJ Reticle

TypeJJ.jpg
 
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