How precise are your loads ?

Herrick

Herrick

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Hi,

I am fairly new to Reloading with less then 200 cartridges reloaded so this question is really a newbie question, sorry about it.

When I did my loads, I was really precise on the amount of powder I put in the cartrige. I mean really precise... The scale I use is precise to 0.02 grain so I remove or add every single part of powder until the scale says it's precise... So it takes a lot of time !

I got very good result (sub moa at 300yrds) and trying to find a longer range to test farther...

But I'm I a obsessive compulsive maniac ? How much variation in the load is considered a precise load ?

The reason I ask is that I saw a couple of Automatic powder dispenser and none of the one I found is more precise than 0.1 grain which is 5 time less precise that what I currently do. Is it overkill to go 0.02 grain ? Is 0.1 precision enough ?

THanks for your help
 
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I run the hornady auto charge which I don't fully trust. I verify with a beam scale from time to time. The hornady claims +- 0.1 grains. The groups I shoot leave me more than satisfied but that doesn't mean I don't keep looking for a better system with more precision. I would love an A&D fx120 but I doubt I need it. Are you using a gempro?
 
I load with a hornady auto charge to -0.3gn of my desired load and then trickle to target on my RCBS beam scale. Takes an extra 10 seconds. MY eyes are only so good- but I think I do better than the digital scale can do.
 
On my last load ladder, 0.3 grains (Varget under a 82 gn 223 bullet) was worth about 1" of vertical at 300 yards - so about 0.3 MOA. If we extrapolate, +/- 0.02 grains would mean a vertical variance of about 0.1" at 300, and this is for a load that is off of an accuracy node.

On a node, the vertical spread should be relatively indifferent to small variations in powder charge. So the effect of +/- 0.02 grains should be less than 0.1". I may work out the velocity delta implied later but my gut says that primer variation, neck tension or any number of things would be more important to minimize velocity variance and vertical dispersion. At long range even the littlest things can help (trajectories get very steep) but at short and intermediate range, I don't think measuring to 0.02 grains is worth the effort.
 
If you are not weight sorting the cases or checking each case for case capacity you are being way to picky with your powder charges.

There is a reason why competitive shooters buy Lapua brass and that is uniformity, meaning uniform case wall thickness and uniform case capacity.

A Lapua .223 case varies 1.2 grains in case weight, and a Winchester .223 case varies 6.5 grains in case weight.

So you can see above the Winchester case will vary more in case capacity with greater variations in chamber pressure.

I use a RCBS Chargemaster because to me its more than good enough for even Lapua brass. And much faster than weighing each charge on a balance beam scale.

Read the links below and then ask yourself if being picky as you stated is even worth the effort.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

Weight vs. Volume — The Great Debate
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/04/weight-vs-volume-the-great-debate/

Reloader’s Reaction: What’s the Best Way to Measure Powder?
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/reloading/best-way-to-measure-powder/

Digital Powder Dispensers Part One
Electronic Powder Measure Comparison Test
http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/digital-powder-dispensers-part-one/

Preparing Cases for Long-Range Accuracy
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/complete-precision-case-prep/
 
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Asked this question about a year ago. Bought myself a fancy gempro scale before I asked for advice.

The advice, and the experience so far, is that the accuracy that the charge master offers you is more than enough. It seems that powder charge precision is actually not as important as you might think.

I'm sure sometime when I'm bored I'll load up 25 done in the charge master and 25 meticulously hand weighed, and do a test, but til then, chargemaster it is!!

GGG
 
Consistent case weight is not a guarantee of same case volume. If you want to confirm case volume, measure case volume.

If the rifle and shooter are accurate enough, you can see on target affects of powder charges as small as 0.1gr on target at 250yds and beyond (for case volumes inthe BR and 308 family).

The further you go, the more precise your powder charges WITH proper tuning needs to be.

'nuff said.

Jerry
 
bigedp51 said:
There is a reason why competitive shooters buy Lapua brass and that is uniformity, meaning uniform case wall thickness and uniform case capacity.

A Lapua .223 case varies 1.2 grains in case weight, and a Winchester .223 case varies 6.5 grains in case weight.

So you can see above the Winchester case will vary more in case capacity with greater variations in chamber pressure.
Click to expand...

Where did they get that data for the Winchester cases varying by 6.5gr?

I just grabbed about 20 random but same headstamp Winchester brass (sized, polished and primed), and the weight was 97gr +/- 1gr about 95% of the time, the other 5% it was +1.5gr off, so your extreme spread is about 2.5gr. Definitely not as consistent as Lapua, but much more consistent than the previously stated 6.5gr.

I may find that this extreme spread will increase slightly if I collected a larger sample size, but for the majority of cases, they were very close to that 97gr (including primer).
 
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I am quite OCD, I weigh all casings, I weigh all projectiles and of course the powder. Everything has to be within 1/10 of a grain for me to be happy with that batch.
 
Unless you are competing or shooting precision at long range, + or - .1 grain is inconsequential in any case with a capacity over 40 grains.
For the average hunter/shooter, a charge dropped from a decent powder measure or an automatic powder dispenser is plenty good enough.

With all due respect for the OCD individuals out there, a lot of time is spent on things that matter little, while often, other, more important details are
overlooked.
I have shot many groups at 500 Meters that were under ½ moa where the charge was dropped out of a Harrell's powder measure, and
never saw the scales except to set up the measure. Dave.
 
Ar180shooter said:
Where did they get that data for the Winchester cases varying by 6.5gr?

I just grabbed about 20 random but same headstamp Winchester brass (sized, polished and primed), and the weight was 97gr +/- 1gr about 95% of the time, the other 5% it was +1.5gr off, so your extreme spread is about 2.5gr. Definitely not as consistent as Lapua, but much more consistent than the previously stated 6.5gr.

I may find that this extreme spread will increase slightly if I collected a larger sample size, but for the majority of cases, they were very close to that 97gr (including primer).
Click to expand...

I do not shoot 223, so have no comment on this chambering. However, I have seen Winchester, Remington and Federal cases within one lot number that varied up to 10 grains from lightest to heaviest. I took 100 7-08 cases [Winchester] to make 260AI out of. I discarded 11 cases due to extreme weight variances, and then sorted the remainder by .3 grain increments, which gave me 4 batches of cases. I have since moved to Lapua for this rifle, and have not so far had to discard any case due to weight discrepancies.
Dave.
 
Mystic Precision said:
Consistent case weight is not a guarantee of same case volume. If you want to confirm case volume, measure case volume.

If the rifle and shooter are accurate enough, you can see on target affects of powder charges as small as 0.1gr on target at 250yds and beyond (for case volumes inthe BR and 308 family).

The further you go, the more precise your powder charges WITH proper tuning needs to be.

'nuff said.

Jerry
Click to expand...

^^^ This...
Smaller cases, a 0.1grain difference constitutes a higher percentage of powder charge: A 300AAC Blackout with it's tiny powder charge, 0.1gr will be a noticeable difference as it makes up more of the ~10gr charge than 0.1gr does in a 338Lapua's 80gr charge. That is definitely something requiring diligence.

A month ago I measured a 10fps ES with a five shot group in my 30-06... IMR 4831 (straight from the Chargemaster) in Winchester brass. I turned the necks, but it wasn't expensive Lapua brass... How many hairs need splitting, ultimately is the question. And if I hadn't botched the fifth shot, that group would have measured 3/8" at 100yards. Often in my case, in that shooting position I can only get 3/4" groups but the rifle can do better: Do I really need to examine for and limit all the variables? If you like to spend that time, sure. But until the most influential variable is controlled, there is no benefit to splitting all the hairs.
 
ZREXER said:
Pull apart some commercial loads and weigh the powder charges.

You will never obsess about being +/- a few 10th of a grain ever again.
Click to expand...

There is a reason, no one that competes uses factory ammo :)

It backs up to the platform and where "good enough" is. Some shooters are more then happy with 1 to 2 MOA accuracy (some rifles can't reliably shoot under MOA)... nothing wrong with that and the fussiness of the ammo can be far less.

But if a shooter is truly interested to see how well their system can work, making the best ammo tuned to the barrel becomes a priority. how far down this rabbit hole you go, again, that is a personal decision.

I am currently making bulk 223 ammo for practising position shooting. With a bit of tweaking, the factory take off sporter barrel can put 5rds around 1/2 moa at 100yds. Bulk Hrn FMJ's and ball powder. It just needed a bit of powder tuning and now I have confidence that an out is me.

The ammo is mostly made on a Lee 1000 progressive but I have taken the time to make sure the dies are set up properly and things are working as they should. So little steps to get some very positive results.

The OP asked a question which seemed he wanted to find the highest level of performance possible. Here careful prep and powder tuning will certainly help.

How far he takes it? Entirely up to him.

YMMV

Jerryt
 
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Ar180shooter said:
Where did they get that data for the Winchester cases varying by 6.5gr?

I just grabbed about 20 random but same headstamp Winchester brass (sized, polished and primed), and the weight was 97gr +/- 1gr about 95% of the time, the other 5% it was +1.5gr off, so your extreme spread is about 2.5gr. Definitely not as consistent as Lapua, but much more consistent than the previously stated 6.5gr.

I may find that this extreme spread will increase slightly if I collected a larger sample size, but for the majority of cases, they were very close to that 97gr (including primer).
Click to expand...

In that post I provided a link to Accurateshooter.com that you didn't read that has charts for case capacity and weight variations.

My preference when buying "new" bulk brass is Winchester, but I prefer buying once fired Lake City 5.56 brass because the brass is harder than any other brass.

As a side note the worst cases I have are Remington .223 cases with the largest weight variations and neck thickness variations.

Also the smaller the case the more its internal capacity will effect pressure and velocity.

I use a Redding neck thickness gauge as the first check when sorting brass and the uniform necks are set aside for further accuracy prep work.

This is just one reason why the average reloader using Remchester brass is waisting his money with bushing dies if they do not neck turn the brass.

Now read the link below on brass hardness. (in three gun competition where you can loose your brass Winchester is used over Lapua.

How Hard is Your Brass? 5.56 and .223 Rem Base Hardness Tests
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/05/how-hard-is-your-brass-5-56-and-223-rem-base-hardness-tests/
 
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Herrick said:
Hi,
I am fairly new to Reloading with less then 200 cartridges reloaded so this question is really a newbie question, sorry about it.

When I did my loads, I was really precise on the amount of powder I put in the cartrige. I mean really precise... The scale I use is precise to 0.02 grain so I remove or add every single part of powder until the scale says it's precise... So it takes a lot of time !
Click to expand...

When I first started reloading I critically weighed my powder charges like you did above and it was not worth the effort with off the shelf factory rifles and Remchester brass.

And some of the best groups I have ever fired were with new unfired brass and thrown powder charges when fire forming brass with the bullets jammed into the rifling.

I'm retired now and have chronologically gifted eyesight and drink too much coffee to worry about such "small" powder weight variations.

I hope you read the links I first posted about weighed vs thrown powder charges and understand the variations in your reloading components that can effect accuracy beside powder weight.
 
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