Posting this, I'm well aware that those experienced people on here who regularly buy such things are fully well aware of this kind of stuff, so I guess this is for the rest of us who might come upon a big inspiring find that we're not sure what to do with. For those, some pointers are found here. And I would appreciate any feedback.
NB: I'm leaving in all the references to illustrations in the original post and things from there are in a general jumble. It's not (just) that I'm lazy, go there whydoncha?
How to buy vintage shotguns without getting burned: The 2nd most important questions to ask a seller
September 7, 2020 by Gregg
So I’ve had tech issues with Dogs & Doubles, and it has taken me a while to get things sorted out. Sorry for the trouble. But now I’m back. So here’s the next part of How to buy vintage shotguns without getting burned.
A few weeks ago, I talked about the first of the three most important questions you need to ask a seller before you buy a gun:
Question 1: Is the gun all original or has it been redone?
This week, we’ll cover: Question 2: What’s the condition of the barrels?
One thing I learned quickly in my gun-hoarding days was that bad barrels equal a bad gun. I know this sounds extreme, but it’s true for 2 reasons.
This gun was intentionally destroyed with a gross overcharge of smokeless powder. Pic from MidwayUSA website
1: Safety. If the integrity of the barrels is compromised in any way, you can’t count on them to constrain the forces that are unleashed when you fire a gun.
16g Parker CHE SxS Shotgun
16g Parker CHE SxS Shotgun
2: Barrels are never worth replacing. OK, almost never. But on an old Parker or Fox, a new set made from scratch will cost your $8,000+ — if you can find someone to do it and do it right. You can send a British SxS or an OU back to the UK for new barrels, but you’re talking at least $10,000. European stuff can be just as pricey.
So when you’re buying a vintage shotgun, you need to figure out the condition of the barrels right away. Here are 5 questions to ask the seller.
Are these barrels their original length? I hope so -- I own the gun!
Are these barrels their original length? I hope so — I own the gun!
1. Are the barrels their original length? Back in the day, gunsmiths used to hack off a couple of inches from shotgun barrels all the time, usually to open up the chokes or to remove damage at the muzzle end. Unfortunately, this can affect how the barrels shoot and how the gun balances. It also lowers a gun’s resale value and can look lousy. So if the barrels are no longer their original length, the smart move is to pass on the gun.
Ouch. A nasty dent in a set Parker barrels. Image from the PerlicanParts forum.
Ouch. A nasty dent in a set Parker barrels. Image from the PerlicanParts forum.
2. Are there are any dents, dings, or bulges in the barrels? If so, you may be able to fix them. But depending on where they are, how bad they are, and the overall quality of the gun, it may not be worth doing. Determining the severity of a dent, ding, or bulge requires a gunsmith. The moment you consult one, you’ll start running a tab that could go to $200+ if you move ahead with any work. BTW: Check out this article to read more about dents what goes into repairing them: The Ins And Outs Of Shotgun Barrel Dents
Bad pitting inside a shotgun barrel
Bad pitting inside a shotgun barrel
3. Is there any pitting or corrosion, inside or out? Rust is never good. But some pin-pricks and small blooms of it can be easy to deal with if they’re on the exterior of the bbls. The same is true with a little light frosting inside the tubes. But thick rust and pits can only be removed with honing and polishing. These fixes aren’t cheap and they can create thin spots in the tubes. None of that is good.
4. Are the ribs tight? Shotgun ribs are fastened to the barrels with soldering. When this soldering comes loose and falls away, moisture works underneath and rust follows. While loose ribs can be relayed, you don’t know how extensive the rust damage is until you remove the ribs. Plus, relaying ribs is expensive and you’ll have to reblue the barrels once it’s done.
5. Are there are any signs of repairs? Barrels get dented and fixed. Sometimes they bulge and are repaired. When they rust, people clean them up and reblue them (but won’t always reblue them the right way). While minor repairs aren’t a huge concern, major fixes are. If a set of barrels has been repaired, you (or more likely a gunsmith) will have to inspect them to see if the repair was done correctly and if the area around the repair has been compromised. And you know what that means — $$$$.
So that’s a lot to ask — I know. Later this week I’ll go over the rest of the things you need to find out about a set of shotguns.
http://www.dogsanddoubles.com/2020/...Yf_vPXQbkRniQNdxNyou93QG4UvSuruU-dEDINEjI_pUw
NB: I'm leaving in all the references to illustrations in the original post and things from there are in a general jumble. It's not (just) that I'm lazy, go there whydoncha?
How to buy vintage shotguns without getting burned: The 2nd most important questions to ask a seller
September 7, 2020 by Gregg
So I’ve had tech issues with Dogs & Doubles, and it has taken me a while to get things sorted out. Sorry for the trouble. But now I’m back. So here’s the next part of How to buy vintage shotguns without getting burned.
A few weeks ago, I talked about the first of the three most important questions you need to ask a seller before you buy a gun:
Question 1: Is the gun all original or has it been redone?
This week, we’ll cover: Question 2: What’s the condition of the barrels?
One thing I learned quickly in my gun-hoarding days was that bad barrels equal a bad gun. I know this sounds extreme, but it’s true for 2 reasons.
This gun was intentionally destroyed with a gross overcharge of smokeless powder. Pic from MidwayUSA website
1: Safety. If the integrity of the barrels is compromised in any way, you can’t count on them to constrain the forces that are unleashed when you fire a gun.
16g Parker CHE SxS Shotgun
16g Parker CHE SxS Shotgun
2: Barrels are never worth replacing. OK, almost never. But on an old Parker or Fox, a new set made from scratch will cost your $8,000+ — if you can find someone to do it and do it right. You can send a British SxS or an OU back to the UK for new barrels, but you’re talking at least $10,000. European stuff can be just as pricey.
So when you’re buying a vintage shotgun, you need to figure out the condition of the barrels right away. Here are 5 questions to ask the seller.
Are these barrels their original length? I hope so -- I own the gun!
Are these barrels their original length? I hope so — I own the gun!
1. Are the barrels their original length? Back in the day, gunsmiths used to hack off a couple of inches from shotgun barrels all the time, usually to open up the chokes or to remove damage at the muzzle end. Unfortunately, this can affect how the barrels shoot and how the gun balances. It also lowers a gun’s resale value and can look lousy. So if the barrels are no longer their original length, the smart move is to pass on the gun.
Ouch. A nasty dent in a set Parker barrels. Image from the PerlicanParts forum.
Ouch. A nasty dent in a set Parker barrels. Image from the PerlicanParts forum.
2. Are there are any dents, dings, or bulges in the barrels? If so, you may be able to fix them. But depending on where they are, how bad they are, and the overall quality of the gun, it may not be worth doing. Determining the severity of a dent, ding, or bulge requires a gunsmith. The moment you consult one, you’ll start running a tab that could go to $200+ if you move ahead with any work. BTW: Check out this article to read more about dents what goes into repairing them: The Ins And Outs Of Shotgun Barrel Dents
Bad pitting inside a shotgun barrel
Bad pitting inside a shotgun barrel
3. Is there any pitting or corrosion, inside or out? Rust is never good. But some pin-pricks and small blooms of it can be easy to deal with if they’re on the exterior of the bbls. The same is true with a little light frosting inside the tubes. But thick rust and pits can only be removed with honing and polishing. These fixes aren’t cheap and they can create thin spots in the tubes. None of that is good.
4. Are the ribs tight? Shotgun ribs are fastened to the barrels with soldering. When this soldering comes loose and falls away, moisture works underneath and rust follows. While loose ribs can be relayed, you don’t know how extensive the rust damage is until you remove the ribs. Plus, relaying ribs is expensive and you’ll have to reblue the barrels once it’s done.
5. Are there are any signs of repairs? Barrels get dented and fixed. Sometimes they bulge and are repaired. When they rust, people clean them up and reblue them (but won’t always reblue them the right way). While minor repairs aren’t a huge concern, major fixes are. If a set of barrels has been repaired, you (or more likely a gunsmith) will have to inspect them to see if the repair was done correctly and if the area around the repair has been compromised. And you know what that means — $$$$.
So that’s a lot to ask — I know. Later this week I’ll go over the rest of the things you need to find out about a set of shotguns.
http://www.dogsanddoubles.com/2020/...Yf_vPXQbkRniQNdxNyou93QG4UvSuruU-dEDINEjI_pUw
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