How to carry a lever safely with a round in the chamber?

Winchester, Browning - half cocked. With my 50's Savage 99 - live round loaded, lever safety on and muzzle control. No external hammer on the Savage.
 
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Pushed bush with a marlin 30-30 for years with a crossbolt safety. Never gave it much thought, safety was always on and hammer uncocked. Rarely saw a deer pushing anyway. Then during firearm handling portion of PAL course the instructor had a meltdown after I was done proving it safe I let the hammer off. He said under no circumstances do you touch the trigger and let the hammer off, that's why you have a safety. The reason why I picked that rifle was that I was familiar with it and owned one for 15 years. I felt worse for the 12 and 13 year olds he would rip a strip off when handling a gun for the first time. Some of them didn't want to pick another one up afterwards. Needless to say the guy was a #### and not the way you should be trying to get youngsters into the sport.
 
WetCoast said:
I grew up as a kid with the BL-22. As others have said, safety is between the ears. That said, I do use the crossbolt safety on my Marlin SBL if I unload via the action. Otherwise, I find the CBS is something that I am always checking to make sure it hasn't engaged accidentally.

When I need any degree of readiness I have one in the chamber and hammer down. Growing up with a lever, pulling back a hammer is second nature. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would leave a lever in half-####. I always thought that the purpose of the half-#### is to catch the hammer if it drops accidentally when manipulating it with your thumb? What am I missing?

WetCoast
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Well, for example, on a marlin 336 without the cross-bolt, you would not lover the hammer on a live round. a hit to the hammer would fire the gun. The manufacturer recommended half #### as THE safety.
 
The old 94s and 336s without the additional safeties worked just fine when these rifles were carried at half ####, but you can't be mindless with any firearm. Muzzle control, protecting the hammer and trigger when pushing though heavy cover, and a grip safety which prevents the rifle from firing unless the lever is squeezed closed all combined to make these rifles safe hunting arms. Having said that, no firearm can be completely safe, no matter how many gadgets are attached to it, without being made useless. Effective safety, is a state of mind, rather than a state of mechanical condition. If you don't trust your mechanical safety, carry the rifle with the magazine full and the chamber empty. The nature of deer hunting in the bush suggests this will cause you to miss opportunities, but that's life.
 
cantgetright said:
Pushed bush with a marlin 30-30 for years with a crossbolt safety. Never gave it much thought, safety was always on and hammer uncocked. Rarely saw a deer pushing anyway. Then during firearm handling portion of PAL course the instructor had a meltdown after I was done proving it safe I let the hammer off. He said under no circumstances do you touch the trigger and let the hammer off, that's why you have a safety. The reason why I picked that rifle was that I was familiar with it and owned one for 15 years. I felt worse for the 12 and 13 year olds he would rip a strip off when handling a gun for the first time. Some of them didn't want to pick another one up afterwards. Needless to say the guy was a #### and not the way you should be trying to get youngsters into the sport.
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Hopefully he doesn't ever shoot a DA revolver.
 
I have 3 lever actions ATM. 2 are M94 Winchesters and one is a 336 Marlin.

All have the "half-####" and lever pin safety system. I like the system just fine.

I carry with a round chambered and at half-####.

Since I abhor all cross-bolt safeties, I would never buy a lever action with one on it. [This includes the very fine Winchester 88 action]

Some have commented that safety is primarily between one's ears....I cannot help but endorse that thought heartily.

Regards, Dave.
 
Half-#### is the safety position when chambered. Lowering the hammer past half #### on a live round is not needed and could result in a slip of the thumb discharge.
 
The "slip of the thumb" discharge risk aside, are some arguing half-cocked is safer than hammer down? I am just so used to sticking my flesh between the hammer and the bolt when I lower the hammer and lowering it completely.

After my post above I thought I had better RTFM. :) It seems a little vague to me. Is the "safe half-####" called that because it is "safer" than full #### AND is safer than hammer down or is hammer down equally safe? To me it seems equally plausible that "fooking" lawyers advised Marlin not to advise lowering the hammer completely because a slipped thumb would mean Marlin might be liable.

TLDNR version: mechanically, can anyone argue hammer down or half-#### is safer (leaving aside for the moment any risk of thumb slippage getting there....)

Can-down said:
Half-#### is the safety position when chambered. Lowering the hammer past half #### on a live round is not needed and could result in a slip of the thumb discharge.
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So do you hunt with the Lever slightly open so the lever saftey is on, then squeeze shut when time to fire?.
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I keep the lever safety engaged, the lever detent is maybe 1/8 inch or so from being flush with the stock; you can feel it click when you engage it or squeeze it shut. Also hammer at half. I don't try for "snap shots" but the shoulder/acquire/squeeze/####/shoot is smoother than you'd expect after you've done it a few times.
 
WetCoast said:
TLDNR version: mechanically, can anyone argue hammer down or half-#### is safer (leaving aside for the moment any risk of thumb slippage getting there....)
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With hammer down, a firm hit to the back of the hammer would be transferred through to the firing pin, possibly setting off the round in the chamber.

With hammer in half-####, a firm hit to the back of the hammer is not transferred to the firing pin, unless the hit is hard enough to break the half-#### notch.
 
Silverado; thanks for the Blackhawk Down reminder.

Folks, all good learning for me. I thank all of you. I grew up with a Browning BL22 40 years ago and for the first time in my life I am going hunting with a 336. I am schooled on all the pros and cons from your discussions and I am enlightened.

Thanks all ! :wave:

Barney.
 
When I was using a Marlin 336 it would be one in the chamber and half cocked. This rifle does not have the lever safety, I'm pretty sure it was made before that feature was introduced.
 
I grew up with my grandfather's 'ol 1892 long octagon barrel Win .44-40, that he bought new in 1905

Yes I used to chamber round and then hunt, many years ago,
until the day that I borrowed a friend's bolt-action rifle .. and, when navigating dense brush ..
a branch, pushed away, swept back and hit the trigger.
Lo and behold .. a hole in the ground magically appeared .. 1/2 inch from my foot.

Since then .. I never chamber a round .. 'til there is something to shoot at.
And when I hunt with others, and I see them chamber a round,
I walk behind them .. always aware of the direction of their rifle's muzzle.

Maybe I'm paranoid and/or overly cautious ... *shrugs* ... but I'm alive.
 
Savage, sounds like you had a close call with a loaded gun off safe and have modified your habits to suit your current mindset.
Not sure why your gun was off safe pushing throught the bush with a round chambered but it's a good example of why you can't rely on mechanical safeties. I've been out hunting and noticed that my tang safety was no longer fully safe ( locked bolt) and was in the second position (safe but unlocked bolt) a bit further and it would be on fire. Not sure how it happens exactly but I find myself checking the safety position during the day now with that rifle......

With my old Marlin I feel safe chamber loaded and half cocked. It would be a strange set of events that could #### the hammer back off the half #### and then have the trigger pulled back and held for a shot to go off.

I wouldn't hunt by choice with people that were so unaware I had to pay attention to their muzzle's direction.
 
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Joe549 said:
When I was using a Marlin 336 it would be one in the chamber and half cocked. This rifle does not have the lever safety, I'm pretty sure it was made before that feature was introduced.
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Also the lever has to be tight to the stock for it to fire. If you open it even a little way it won't fire.
 
This is a copy and paste from the Henry Big-Boy owners manual"

If you are not yet ready to fire, then place your thumb on the hammer, and disengage the hammer by pulling the trigger slightly rearward. Immediately release the trigger while still holding the hammer, and bring the hammer into the fired down position. You now have the gun in loaded but safe to carry position. If you want to fire the gun, bring the hammer back to the cocked position, aim in a safe direction at your target, and pull the trigger.
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GMC403 said:
That's why I love the Cross Bolt Saftey.

No CBS?, no round in the chamber for me. Life's short enough as it is.
Hate me if ya wanna.
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I don't hate you. I'm glad there are people like you who prefer the cross bolt safety. In fact, I wish there were more. Then maybe fewer guys would trust those dangerous vintage leverguns and the market would be a little softer to the benefit of the people who know better.

Generally the half-#### notch on a levergun is much deeper than the sear notch and is deeper than the sear notch. The sear is actually buried in the notch making it impossible, short of a total metallurgical failure, for the hammer to slip past half-####. It is also impossible for the trigger pull to disengage the hammer from this buried notch. See the below image and be relieved.

HPIM2034.jpg
 
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