How to carry Dominion Outlaw?

sillymike said:
I guess evey body has a different comfort zone... but I don't consider a bear 30M away to be a treath... and I will certainly not engage it at that distance.

This been said, I'm not a fan of buckshots either. If I carry a shotgun for SD, it will be loaded with 1oz slugs.
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If he is charging you he sure as hell is!

A bear can make up a 30m gap in just a couple seconds! They are not made for long distance running but they can go from 30m to 1m before you even have a chance to get a sight picture thats for sure!
 
mlehtovaara said:
There isn't any bones in that ballistic gelatine!

I challenge you to find me one person who we could call an expert, or one police force, swat team, tactical unit, defensive specialist, whatever to back up your idea that birdshot is capable of immediately incapacitating an intruder.

I don't argue that it won't hurt, but they would still have the capacity to continue attacking you!

I will admit I actually used to argue the same thing as you are when I first started thinking about home defence, and participating in some similar discussions here. The difference is I know how to admit that I am wrong, and after reading alot of accounts, and expert opinions I discovered I was indeed wrong!

Regardless you seem to not want to reason, and only abide by your personal opinion so this is a pointless discussion.

To the OP sorry for the derail!
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You get hit square by a 1 7/8 oz 71/2shot 4 dram eq. load at 3-5 yds and you are not getting up, period. Just ask the dog I had to shoot a couple of years ago, it sure proved the effectiveness of birdshot at close range to me. That ballistic gelatin shot was a 1oz 2 dram eq load at best and look at the damage. You have yet to show me how buckshot doesn't overpenetrate which was my original statement. Everything I see agrees with my statement totally. Use buckshot as long as you don't care what happens behind your target. Will you always be sure in a HD situation what your backstop is? What a safe direction to fire in is? I will always go with the safest alternative that will get the job done, heavy birdshot loads.
Kim
 
elimsprint said:
Use buckshot as long as you don't care what happens behind your target. Will you always be sure in a HD situation what your backstop is? What a safe direction to fire in is?
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lmao...
I can see it now, "excuse me Mr. Bad guy, but could you move a little to the left so I can shoot you now? I'm afraid I might have some collateral damage to my newly painted walls. Thank you for your co-operation in this matter".

you're funny dude.
 
hoochie said:
lmao...
I can see it now, "excuse me Mr. Bad guy, but could you move a little to the left so I can shoot you now? I'm afraid I might have some collateral damage to my newly painted walls. Thank you for your co-operation in this matter".

you're funny dude.
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My point exactly. It's more damage to somebody behind those newly painted walls but close enough. With birdshot I don't need to worry about overpenetration even with hollow interior walls.
Kim
 
at 15m the pellets from a 00Buck will stay within the target zone of a humanoid target.
and as far as guys being concerned with Bear defence at 30m... I've been 10 feet from a bear and never shot one. In BC, I've been close to bears, and often when I try and get closer to take a picture of them they often leave... they walk away before I can get close. Never had one come into my camp and trash the place. I respect the bears, but I dont fear them. I dont know anyone who has been attacked by a bear or even had a "close call" with them. While hunting this year, my wife walked right up on a bear (she didnt know it was there) and once the bear saw her it got up and ran away. She jumped back as the noise of it startled her, but I assure you the bear was more spooked than she was.
 
hoochie said:
at 15m the pellets from a 00Buck will stay within the target zone of a humanoid target.
and as far as guys being concerned with Bear defence at 30m... I've been 10 feet from a bear and never shot one. In BC, I've been close to bears, and often when I try and get closer to take a picture of them they often leave... they walk away before I can get close. Never had one come into my camp and trash the place. I respect the bears, but I dont fear them. I dont know anyone who has been attacked by a bear or even had a "close call" with them. While hunting this year, my wife walked right up on a bear (she didnt know it was there) and once the bear saw her it got up and ran away. She jumped back as the noise of it startled her, but I assure you the bear was more spooked than she was.
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I agree and I to have had many close encounters with bears! 9/10 times I reach for the camera and not a gun, but last summer riding with my GF on a quad at her cottage we had a smallish mother Black Bear charge us head on. She had 2 cubs just up the road off to the side, and I was amazed how fast she could move! I just gunned it and missed her by only a couple feet, but it made me think.

Im not saying I would be shooting at a bear at 30m but I would want to be able to the second it started a charge. Bluff, or not, I'm not taking my chances!

How we even got on the topic of home defence is beyond me.

We were originally talking about shotguns and bears.
 
"How we even got on the topic of home defence is beyond me.
We were originally talking about shotguns and bears."

Yeah, the Outlaw looks like it might be a good gun for this purpose.
 
mlehtovaara said:
I agree and I to have had many close encounters with bears! 9/10 times I reach for the camera and not a gun, but last summer riding with my GF on a quad at her cottage we had a smallish mother Black Bear charge us head on. She had 2 cubs just up the road off to the side, and I was amazed how fast she could move! I just gunned it and missed her by only a couple feet, but it made me think.

Im not saying I would be shooting at a bear at 30m but I would want to be able to the second it started a charge. Bluff, or not, I'm not taking my chances!

How we even got on the topic of home defence is beyond me.

We were originally talking about shotguns and bears.
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I went through the posts, post # 7. It was you......
 
Dexter Morgan said:
"How we even got on the topic of home defence is beyond me.
We were originally talking about shotguns and bears."

Yeah, the Outlaw looks like it might be a good gun for this purpose.
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I hear Mossberg has come out with a "Tactical" O/U which I hope will be available in Canada. It's my idea of the perfect bear defence gun, slim and light. Yes it will kick but no worse than a comparable SxS.
Kim
 
Back on topic though the reason id stay away from over unders and side by sides is accuracy. Many double barrels have a different point of impact from each barrel.

You can get a cheap pump like a Maverick 88 for around 220-250 bucks.

Regardless of ammo choice Id take the outlaw to the range and see how it shoots at 5, 10, 20 and 30 yards.

My 28 inch barreled Maverick with a modified choke throws several kinds of 00 buck all over the place past 25 yards.

Not sure what the chokes are on an outlaw.
 
To get back on subject...

I wouldn't mind something like this:

shotgun-bandolier-scabbard,.jpg
 
sillymike,
I just wonder how quick you could get the gun into action with something like that. The OP did say bear defence so when you need it you need it NOW. Also that is one load of ammo just for bear defence but you could just carry less. I would like to see a single point sling with shell loops for 6-8 rounds on a purpose built O/U with screw in chokes and barrels regulated for about 30yds. A SxS Outlaw as the OP states would also be OK. I have a HP9-1 14" that I use now but it is very heavy to lug around all day.
Kim
 
Anything that is suitable for anti-personnel use is capable of inflicting severe damage after passing through a typical drywall interior wall. There is no free lunch here. As Dr. Gary K. Roberts, who studies wound ballistics in a professional capacity, says here:

Bullets that may be required to incapacitate aggressors must reliably penetrate a minimum of approximately 10 to 12 inches of tissue in order to ensure disruption of the major organs and blood vessels in the torso from any angle and through excessive adipose tissue, hypertrophied muscle, or intervening anatomic structures, such as a raised arm.
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http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34714

#7-1/2 shot certainly cannot be counted upon to reach major organs and blood vessels after passing through an arm; a very real possibility if one has to fire upon an aggressor who is aiming a gun.

Furthermore, underpenetration is in practice more of a problem than overpenetration. More attention needs to be paid to shot placement and selecting adequate ammunition Once again, I could not possibly say it better than Dr. Roberts:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=56486
 
Dexter Morgan said:
For those that carry for bear protection.

With a Dominion Arms Outlaw double-barrel. Can it be carried cocked and locked? (is there a manual safety?)

Is it safe to carry with hammers down on loaded shells (transfer bar or firing pin block?)

Or is it only safe to carry unloaded? (keep two shells handy?)
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To the OP, I respectfully request that you change your post to What pump action and ammo is best for home defence? I don't want to sound like a douchenozzel, but apparently nobody gives a fiddlersf**k about the question you want answered. :bangHead:
 
Dex, I re-call my first post, sounds like hammers down is your safest choice. Just be extra careful when carrying it cocked and locked. You know, never trust the safety. Wow, this thread got ravaged like a blowup doll in a college dorm...:adult:
 
wow this thread quickly goes off the rails.... TWK


I personally dont feel comfortable carrying a side by side or over/under loaded. even at the half ####.

If you ever take a bear defense course you learn that most bear situations do not require a firearm or killing the animal. If a bear sees you as prey it will stalk you, using as little energy as possible to obtain the calories (you). Usually they will follow you and close the distance slowly to see your reaction, and then when they are close enough... well thats the end for most..

In that situation you usually have plenty of time to load the firearm take aim and make the situation safe.... ugh I always seem to end up in a bear defense thread haha.

Anyways thats what I have been taught and I hope it helps. Personal experience seems to back it up too. I have yet to be stalked in a predatory manner by a bear. You just give em no reason to stick around. I am beginning to ramble now so I will leave it at that. :D

PS a guy had some sort of holster set up a while back in the photo and video thread area for an outlaw...
 
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