How to clean a really bad bore

With old guns that have been abused or never cleaned, what you have is layers of crud that you need to get out. No one product will dissolve powder, carbon, and copper at the same time. You need to take it down in layers, switching from carbon/powder removal to copper removal and repeat. You can use a bronze brush with carbon/powder removal as this usually is not amonia based or copper cutter. Otis makes specific carbon/powder cleaner but I found Gunzilla to work better (both are non-toxic btw). 4-5 brush strokes is all it takes followed by clean patches to get a layer of carbon/powder out.
I don't like ammonia cleaners as they can damage the bore, are toxic, and work much slower then the non-toxic copper cutters. Otis makes a good one, I generally use it on bolt faces, or anything that gets marked up with brass. No other product I've tried removes brass marks on steel like it does. It will do a good job in the bore but is more work then the foaming wipeout. Patches, followed by nylon brushing, followed by sitting for an hour will take a layer of copper out. With wipeout its just fill the bore and wait an hour. It says on the instructions it will keep working for 24hrs but really after an hour it's not doing very much. If it's not dripping blue anymore, but grey or black then there is no more copper and time to switch to powder/copper brushing.
I know this is my second post on this but seriously, I'm anal as #### about a spotless bore and I've tried god knows how many cleaners over the years, most are pretty useless BTW, and toxic as hell and not good for you. The Otis stuff is pretty good (my #2 pick) and not that expensive $20 for a HUGE bottle that should last you a decade or more, but you will need 2 kinds...carbon & copper).
The Gunzilla/Wipeout combo is my #1 pick, it works better then anything and with the least amount of effort. It will get your bore "squeaky clean"...literally your patches will squeak when it's clean, which is weird I know.
 
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