How to fix a ringed chamber in a 32-40?

Tharjoe

Tharjoe

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Good afternoon all,
I recently picked up a very nice original Winchester Low Wall in 32-40. It began its life as a 32-20, but was re-bored and re-chambered to 32-40 at some point.
The whole rifle is in excellent shape, the action is as tight as the day it was new. The bore is pristine. I hardly believed that it was made in 1890 when I looked up the serial number. And yes, it has the original #1 weight octagon barrel.

I got it home and began loading for it. I took it out for the first time on the weekend and discovered a problem. The first fired round I tried to eject would barely come out. I have a ringed chamber :(
You can see the rings on the fired cases, just below the bullet. I think that someone probably was shooting smokeless loads with a filler and did this. Probably why the gun didn't cost a fortune. I just didn't notice the ring when I looked it over at the show.

The good thing is that the rifle is very accurate. The target in the first picture is from the very first (and only) load I have tried. I think that a 50 yard target like this, with the original open front/Lyman peep rear sights is pretty good.

How do I repair the chamber? Is it possible to hone a chamber out slightly? The ring is just behind the bullet and honing very carefully would put a tiny shoulder into the case. I do not want to re-barrel the rifle or re-bore/re-chamber to a different caliber.

I have looked at the micro hones for chambers available from Brownells and I know that company can make special order hones, too. Would that work?

Thanks, in advance, for your help!
Tharjoe

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Well, rechambering to 30-30 wouldn't work, as the bore is already 0.313" with a 0.323" groove, so a 0.308" 30-30 bullet would just fall through. I suppose .32 Special would be possible, but the .32 Special cases would be 0.100" short, and I would prefer keeping the gun in 32-40.
The mouth of a fired case is only 0.001" over the unfired dimension, so the chamber of the rifle, except for the ring, is really good. I'm thinking that I could ream/polish it out very gently to a couple of thousandths past the ring, leaving the "neck" area of the case as it is, but very carefully change the taper of the case. The diameter of the ring on a fired case measures 0.3460", and an unfired case at that point is 0.3383", and so the ring is 0.0077" diameter over the unfired dimension. Honing like this might leave a faint shoulder, but my idea is to try to maintain a tapered case if possible.
I guess I can try it, and if it fails, I can always re-barrel/re-bore/re-chamber it.
 
Tharjoe said:
Well, rechambering to 30-30 wouldn't work, as the bore is already 0.313" with a 0.323" groove, so a 0.308" 30-30 bullet would just fall through. I suppose .32 Special would be possible, but the .32 Special cases would be 0.100" short, and I would prefer keeping the gun in 32-40.
The mouth of a fired case is only 0.001" over the unfired dimension, so the chamber of the rifle, except for the ring, is really good. I'm thinking that I could ream/polish it out very gently to a couple of thousandths past the ring, leaving the "neck" area of the case as it is, but very carefully change the taper of the case. The diameter of the ring on a fired case measures 0.3460", and an unfired case at that point is 0.3383", and so the ring is 0.0077" diameter over the unfired dimension. Honing like this might leave a faint shoulder, but my idea is to try to maintain a tapered case if possible.
I guess I can try it, and if it fails, I can always re-barrel/re-bore/re-chamber it.
Click to expand...

should have said rechamber to 32 special.

I guess you have nothing to lose at this point by honing but I wouldn't expect much. A candidate for rebore to 38-55 maybe.
 
You could ream it slightly and probably get away with it. A small hone would likely work also. You will be working the brass a bit extramarital each firing, but that's probably not a huge issue.
 
You could try your honing and if it doesn't work then remove the barrel, cut the threads off, rechamber and rethread the barrel being as it has already been altered from original, just 1" shorter and with a nice new 32-40 chamber.
 
Willy Tincup said:
You could try your honing and if it doesn't work then remove the barrel, cut the threads off, rechamber and rethread the barrel being as it has already been altered from original, just 1" shorter and with a nice new 32-40 chamber.
Click to expand...

The barrel would have to be shortened to the point that the reamer would eliminate the ring. Some careful measuring would indicate how much. The 32-40 has pretty gradual taper.
The barrel is known to be a good shooter, so this will be preserved.
A more extreme solution would be reboring and rechambering to .38-55.
Sleeving the chamber would also be a possibility. This is not a high pressure cartridge, so there should be no safety concerns.
 
Carosafe chamber and get taper reamer built to that spec to get rid of that raised ring
 
Looks like a bit of a too much crimp holding back the bullet, like its trying to separate the case at the bullet base. A single shot, I would try no, or just enough crimp to keep the bullet from falling out.
 
450yukon said:
Looks like a bit of a too much crimp holding back the bullet, like its trying to separate the case at the bullet base. A single shot, I would try no, or just enough crimp to keep the bullet from falling out.
Click to expand...

That sounds likely. The only load I tried, as I showed above, has only the tiniest amount of crimp.
 
if your chamber neck area is only .001" over the loaded neck diameter, you could probably just rechamber with a standard reamer which I think allows .004" clearance. Also with a groove diameter of .323, are you using .323 slugs (8 mm) or .321 slugs ? If using the larger slugs, perhaps your chamber already has a standard chamber and the .323 slugs are expanding the neck to leave only .001 clearance. Setting the barrel back 1 or 2 threads may be your only option. Seems strange to have a low wall chambered in 32-40 as they were for pistol cartridges and the highwalls for rifle cartridges

cheers mooncoon
 
The barrel is marked 32 WCF just in front of the action. The rifle is definitely in 32-40 now, though and does not show any sign of sleeving that I can see. I thought to myself that there was very little material to bore out and re-chamber to 32-40.
That said, I willhave to look at the muzzle more closely. I don't think it's been sleeved, but maybe I missed that. I certainly missed seeing the ring in the chamber!
 
mooncoon said:
if your chamber neck area is only .001" over the loaded neck diameter, you could probably just rechamber with a standard reamer which I think allows .004" clearance. Also with a groove diameter of .323, are you using .323 slugs (8 mm) or .321 slugs ? If using the larger slugs, perhaps your chamber already has a standard chamber and the .323 slugs are expanding the neck to leave only .001 clearance. Setting the barrel back 1 or 2 threads may be your only option. Seems strange to have a low wall chambered in 32-40 as they were for pistol cartridges and the highwalls for rifle cartridges

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

very odd to have a .323" bored 32-20 or even a 32-40. Most 32-40 barrels I have slugged were .320-.321". I've never slugged a low wall, but have done many other Winchester 32-20 rifles from the same era and all were all in the .312"-.313" range. None were .323" .

Would be quite a job to rebore a 32-20 to 32-40 , given the small difference in size. Sleeving is the only possibility I could think of.
If it hasn't been done already I would slug this barrel and confirm the size before making any decisions.
 
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I know that 32-20 low walls were stamped 32 WCF, because I have one but part of the question in my mind is how were early 32-40 Winchester barrels stamped ? An early barrel could easily be .002" oversize and I once owned a Marlin rifle with an original barrel that was .008 or .009" oversize. If the early 32-40 barrels were also stamped 32 WCF it could be that a high wall barrel was put on a low wall action

cheers mooncooon
 
Mooncoon, I have an original Winchester Special Single Shot ( what Campbell calls a "pre-schuetzen" rifle, in his first book, Swiss buttplate, ### wood, half octagon, SST ). It's marked ".32-40". From what I remember it was built in 1893. I should really get a Cody letter for it and a couple of others. I don't remember the groove diameter, but it's 1:16 twist and shoots the short ( ~170gr ) tapered Saeco schuetzen bullet pretty well.

I'll bet that low wall had a highwall barrel swapped into it. I think there were some highwalls made in the early days with the same shank size as the low wall receivers. I'm pretty sure that Winchester never made a .32-40 in a low wall. There was a big discussion on this topic on the ASSRA forums some time ago. As I remember, all of the .32-40 low walls seen were parts guns.

Personally I would get a reamer built to clean up the chamber and shoot breech seated bullets with black powder. When breech seating it won't really matter if the chamber is a bit sloppy at the mouth. And it'll generally be way more accurate than fixed ammunition. I'd only shoot black powder in it though.

Chris.
 
Gunlakers suggestion of opening the chamber and breech seating is a good idea if you are interested in that sort of shooting. Probably be capable of very impressive accuracy.

If you want to use fixed ammo turning the barrel on another turn or 2 and rechamber is probably the best option for keeping the gun as close as possible to the same condition.
Reline, rebore or rebarrel if you want a different caliber. Finding someone to do the work could be a challenge.
 
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