How to get more people involved in Competitive Shooting

Jonny_Cannon said:
I dunno. I thought I was pretty good with pistol, rifle and shotgun. I go to the range, practice a lot, etc, and then I watch a video of competitive shooting. Even the beginner levels - if I came out, I think it would be strictly for comic relief. I have a ton of respect for people who are good at this. Hell, I have a ton of respect for people who AREN'T good at this because they'd sure kick my ass at it.

Cannon
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Come out and try it mate. You'll be pleasantly surprised!
 
Jonny_Cannon said:
Even the beginner levels - if I came out, I think it would be strictly for comic relief.
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And there's nothing wrong with that. "I'm going out to have a good time and learn something in the process" is a perfectly valid form of mental preparation. Thinking out loud, but a rookie "division" that puts the emphasis on fun, mentoring and the more social aspects of F-class shooting may bring more people out. Call it F-amateur, foster "a bowling league...but with guns" atmosphere, seed it with some really good mentors?

Does the fact that F-class shooting has a defined season (instead of being a year round event) push shooters away? Maybe more winter events (possibly indoor) would bring in more shooters when there's less competition from summer-time activities?
 
Stevebot-7 said:
This is just me talking out of my ass, but I think if people want to get new folks involved, stop saying that they need to be able to shoot sub-inch groups at a hundred meters, or be shooting out to a thousand meters.

At least that's what I've noticed lurking around the boards, that if a gun can only shoot a 3 inch group at 100 meters it's "inaccurate garbage that can't hit the broad side of a barn". That's exactly the kind of thing that promotes the idea that people NEED to be buying premium rifles and accessories that cost several thousand dollars.

I mean, look at me, if I want to get into "precision" shooting I need to cut my average group size down by about five inches, and spend a few thousand dollars on a vehicle since I'm a city boy, and no one's got the time to be helping out a guy who hasn't paid their dues.
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Boards like that can be terribly deceiving because those that BS the most are not necessarily the ones that you should be listening to. I can think of more than 20 top shooters, precision gun builders (none of Canada's barrel makers) , and Canadian Hall of Fame shooters (and exceptional mentors) in benchrest, F-class, and TR that have nothing to do with this forum. It pisses them off to see the utter BS by message board "heroes" and taken as gospel. The place to go is a range where they shoot these types of disciplines, Ask around and come out and see.
 
Personally I've never found the folks at fclass matches anything other than fantastic! There's lots of fun chat help if you need it, equipment talk and sometimes their wives even cook you a bunch of food! Lol.
 
Wow. I need to do more research. 50 METER pistol? Forgive my ignorance, but are they shooting the usual pistols I see in matches, or something geared towards longer-range? I mean, I practice at 25 yards at my range. I really need work there, but at closer ranges I do excellent. That being said, I'm not running from target to target. But geez; I can barely SEE out to 50 meters lol.

Cannon
 
Jonny_Cannon said:
Wow. I need to do more research. 50 METER pistol? Forgive my ignorance, but are they shooting the usual pistols I see in matches, or something geared towards longer-range? I mean, I practice at 25 yards at my range. I really need work there, but at closer ranges I do excellent. That being said, I'm not running from target to target. But geez; I can barely SEE out to 50 meters lol.

Cannon
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There are a lot more competitive shooting discilpines than you think. Some are very competitive and others are just fun to shoot.
www.krieghoff.co.uk/sei/s/2855/f21.pdf

As far as being the butt end of comic relief for everyone else, who cares? We have to have someone to laugh at. I am a TR shooter and always make it a point to poke fun at all the F'ers when I go to a match. I do have to say that I get back just as much as I give out and it is all in good fun.
I also shoot skeet for fun. We tell jokes and make fun of each other when someone screws up at a station. If I wasn't having so much fun, I wouldn't bother even going out.
 
Jonny_Cannon said:
Wow. I need to do more research. 50 METER pistol? Forgive my ignorance, but are they shooting the usual pistols I see in matches, or something geared towards longer-range? I mean, I practice at 25 yards at my range. I really need work there, but at closer ranges I do excellent. That being said, I'm not running from target to target. But geez; I can barely SEE out to 50 meters lol.

Cannon
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Several major US events shoot out to 50 yards:
http://shootersmagazine.com/nra-action-pistol/
http://www.odcmp.org/0708/default.asp?page=NTPISTOL

Notice the USAMU is using Berettas for those 50 yard matches?
http://www.gun-tests.com/performance/oct97shootbetter.html
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=426755
 
Jonny_Cannon said:
Wow. I need to do more research. 50 METER pistol? Forgive my ignorance, but are they shooting the usual pistols I see in matches, or something geared towards longer-range? I mean, I practice at 25 yards at my range. I really need work there, but at closer ranges I do excellent. That being said, I'm not running from target to target. But geez; I can barely SEE out to 50 meters lol.

Cannon
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^A Hammerli Model 150, designed to be shot with ony one hand unsupported, and iron sights only and made for this event.
In thoery in 50 meter pistol, you could use any 22 LR chambered action in the single shot mode.
But you would be handicapped against these single shot handguns, specifically built for this discipline.
Up until very recently, this shooting event was named Free Pistol, because in thoery other than a few rules, there was not many one had to follow.
It's also the oldest shooting sport in the Olympics. (1896) This ISSF discipline is not for everyone. Each event in 60 shots for score, excluding sighters, and average a bit over two hours long. Youtube has many of these televised events recorded.

Cheers!
 
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paperslayer said:
Boards like that can be terribly deceiving because those that BS the most are not necessarily the ones that you should be listening to. I can think of more than 20 top shooters, precision gun builders (none of Canada's barrel makers) , and Canadian Hall of Fame shooters (and exceptional mentors) in benchrest, F-class, and TR that have nothing to do with this forum. It pisses them off to see the utter BS by message board "heroes" and taken as gospel. The place to go is a range where they shoot these types of disciplines, Ask around and come out and see.
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Paperslayer,
Your last sentence should be posted at the top of every shooting forum home page.
Larry Bartholome
Texas
 
Paperslayer and Larry,

That is an excellent point, making contact with the people that actually do shoot and getting out and seeing and doing it yourself.

Most shooters don't even know that each province has a Provincial Rifle Association let alone a National one the Dominion of Canada Rifle Association or DCRA. Besides the recent posts about the Canadian F Class Team's attendence at the World F Class Championsips, very few are aware that Canada sends a rifle team to the UK every year.

The DCRA website http://www.dcra.ca/index.php has links to all the Provincial Rifle Association and some International Rifle Association.
 
Handgun Metallic Silhouette is the only other pistol shooting sport that equals and then surpasses ISSF 50 Meter Pistol for distance shooting.
In that sport they shoot at up to 200 meters on larger metal cutout targets. Some other bullseye pistol shooting events (such as NRA 2700) do have a brief 50 meter event. But they primarily shoot at closer distances for the bulk of thier scored shooting efforts. Free Pistol only happens at 50 meters for the complete event. Then yet again, bullseye pistol (NRA/ISSF) and action pistol (IDPA/IPSC) are two very different shooting sports. Myself, I am unaware if any action pistol discipline has a 50 meter event.
 
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Interesting thread. I'm very new to shooting, got my licence this past summer. The first rifle I bought was a Rem700 VTR in 223 used from a friend. I've put a few hundred rounds down range at 100 yds and have tried out to 200 yds. To give you the perspective from a new shooter that is interested in F-Class. As a new shooter, it is a little intimidatingt to think about competing. If there was a class for newb's or rookies I might consider it. Like some posts mention about equipment - I'm not in a position to spend a couple thousand dollars to see if it would help me. I'm sure most of you have put thousands of rounds down range. Maybe more trigger time will help. I am definately inconsistant, but some groups are nice. As soon as I go out to 200 yds things seem to be fall apart significantly.
I would be a lot more comfortable having a mentor to help nail down the fundamentals - breathing, trigger pull, adjusting the scope at different distances etc. Thinking of reloading, which might tighten things up a bit but this is something that a mentor would also be able to assist in.
I wanted to go and check out the nationals, and had a great response from a couple of local guys but the timing just didn't work out to get over there. I've never really looked into the cost of this sport from an event cost (equipment I can see). So that really doesn't deter me at this point. A big part of my problem is the shooting time - I work construction so long hours in the summer, hard to get out in the evenings. I try to go out every Saturday and at least should 10 x 5 shot groups.
Anyway, kind of went off there a bit. New shooter - intimidated and unsure where to start.
Respect to you guys. (BTW I'm not a young (not older either) guy at 43)
 
Jerry in his post #86 shows us a .22lr rig set up for all distance shooting.
The best way to get new shooters interested is by giving them the chance to shoot a lot at a reasonable price, and to develop the technique required to shoot Xrings.
By the time this takes, they have it in their blood, and once the addiction sets hold the costs will not be as big a threshold to overcome.
My 2 bits.
 
Static030, there is an ORA winter training clinic. No better format to learn the basics and get some trigger time on target.

There are spots and the cost is dirt cheap given the experience and knowledge shared. See the post a couple from this one and join in the fun.

There are some basics that need to be solid. Beyond that, its just trigger time and learning the winds. Is your combo competitive? who cares.

Scale the target to help with your skill level and confidence. Make the 4 ring YOUR 5 ring, 3 ring your 4 and so forth. As long as you are shooting to your potential of both gear and present skills, you are doing great and learning fast.

Strive to improve but don't beat yourself up cause you are not beating the National champ at your 2nd match.

Very soon, better ammo, better barrel will go on. A scope upgrade more suited to the game. Better skills. You shoot possibles (75 out of 75) on your score so you start to move to the normal target and away you go.

It has taken all of us years to get decent at this sport. Some days, we still have our moments.

The only way to improve is to get some support and then lead downrange. If you can't get out to LR on the weekend, use the 22LR. At 350yds, the bullet moves around but can be surprisingly accurate. 200yds is like shooting 500m.

Get some scaled flags from Wheelgun. Books from the likes of Milcun, Nancy Tompkins.... Winter gives you plenty of time to practise and develop your tools for the next season.

Learning to do your trade likely didn't happen overnight. LR Precision shooting will not either.

Jerry

PS practise like you are in a match. See the conditions, decide on a sighter adjustment. Take your 2 sighters adjusting as necessary and shoot the next 15 or 20 shot as you would in a match. Keep track of what you saw for wind vs wind call vs where the shot landed. Learn why, understand why. Repeat the mental process. Improve. Keep track of your score and scope adjustments.

I find if I practise like I am in a match, I will be more focused as I don't just shoot until I get the result I want. Score yourself and see that scores improve. You are only competing with your self and 25rds of properly aimed fire will be mentally tiring at first.
 
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maynard said:
The DCRA office is not staffed fulltime, year round. PM Sent.
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Thanks for the help Maynard, I appreciate it. I'll see if I can make contact.

I know the DCRA office is not staffed full time, nor year round. But their web site is....its 2013. They've got to manage the communication flows better, lest they risk alienating potential new shooters. This criticism in not directed solely at the DCRA, lots of other groups (shooting and non-shooting) fall into this trap too.

RIFLEF said:
Jerry in his post #86 shows us a .22lr rig set up for all distance shooting.
The best way to get new shooters interested is by giving them the chance to shoot a lot at a reasonable price, and to develop the technique required to shoot Xrings.
Click to expand...

I understand and support Jerry's approach. And training year round with equipment that mimics match equipment is sound philosophy. But I'm not sure his trainer qualifies as "reasonably priced;" from a new shooters perspective. Using cocktail napkin mathematics, Jerry's year-round all distance .22rf trainer (rifle, 20moa base, zee rings, scope, bipod, adjustable comb + taxes and shipping) is probably in the $2,000-2,300 range. Cheaper if you already have the parts on hand from other builds. Granted, the training ammo is appreciably cheaper, assuming you're not running Olympic grade ammo.

Perhaps a fixed configuration stock class (like F-M but mandate the actual equipment and price point) might be a better way to go? Shot on standardized targets at fixed short range, year round (postal match, anyone?) you could train new shooters inexpensively and still get them hooked.

Hmm....F-S (for Savage Class) shot using:

Savage Mark II FV (synthetic, hb, at), Burris low Sig Zee rings, Bushnell Trophy 6-18AO scope and any 6-9" non-swiveling folding bi-pod. No substitutions, under $650 (tax out).
50m prone
60 shots, 10 shots per distance (unlimited sighters)
targets scaled to represent 50, 100, 200, 400, 600, 800 meters.

Now you've got a competitive CoF that mimics outdoor F O/M class, can be shot year round on short ranges. That might bring new shooters in.
 
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Static030 said:
Interesting thread. I'm very new to shooting, got my licence this past summer. The first rifle I bought was a Rem700 VTR in 223 used from a friend. I've put a few hundred rounds down range at 100 yds and have tried out to 200 yds. To give you the perspective from a new shooter that is interested in F-Class. As a new shooter, it is a little intimidatingt to think about competing. If there was a class for newb's or rookies I might consider it. Like some posts mention about equipment - I'm not in a position to spend a couple thousand dollars to see if it would help me. I'm sure most of you have put thousands of rounds down range. Maybe more trigger time will help. I am definately inconsistant, but some groups are nice. As soon as I go out to 200 yds things seem to be fall apart significantly.
I would be a lot more comfortable having a mentor to help nail down the fundamentals - breathing, trigger pull, adjusting the scope at different distances etc. Thinking of reloading, which might tighten things up a bit but this is something that a mentor would also be able to assist in.
I wanted to go and check out the nationals, and had a great response from a couple of local guys but the timing just didn't work out to get over there. I've never really looked into the cost of this sport from an event cost (equipment I can see). So that really doesn't deter me at this point. A big part of my problem is the shooting time - I work construction so long hours in the summer, hard to get out in the evenings. I try to go out every Saturday and at least should 10 x 5 shot groups.
Anyway, kind of went off there a bit. New shooter - intimidated and unsure where to start.
Respect to you guys. (BTW I'm not a young (not older either) guy at 43)
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I'm working on it. Stick around for next year's PR (Precision Rifle) matches. We are gonna have fun! :D

Cheers and keep helping the noobs around here.

Barney
 
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