How to git gud?

Ced1942

Ced1942

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Alright long story short, i decided a few weeks ago to get into long range because with covid going to the range and shooting restricted is a goddamn hassle so i need something else to do. Now my question is what kind of training does one do to become a good precision shooter? I am all alone in this adventure, maybe a spotter once in a while but most of the time i will be by myself. i know no one to teach me and there is no match/competition in a 1000km radius of my home so really, i am by myself.

I have a Rem 700 5R milspec .308 with a Vortex crossfire II 6x24x50mm, this is just for info as i am not looking to change equipment before i atleast get familiar with what i have and know what i want then. I will be reloading my own ammo too. My ultimate goal is to be capable of 1000yard+ shot.

Now what i want to know is how do i train? Should i zero and go to 500 yard right away and train up from there? Or go from 100 and up when i feel i have peaked? I have no ballistic app or kestrel, how far before i NEED to get into these?

Id like to know what you guys think about all this, you always hear to practice and “git gud!”, but i feel the wrong practice will be both wasted time and ammo($$$)

Ced
 
Well....that's a tall order. First I would educate myself on all the basics of rifle shooting. This would include shooting position, breath control, trigger control, sighting, etc. Then I would practice shooting an accurate .22 rifle at 100y or more. The more you practice the better you'll get. When you can't improve any further, then it's time to switch to your centre fire long range rig. Again, start at 100y to minimize wind drift issues. When you can keep your groups within the capabilities of your rifle and ammo, then start shooting further out. Now here's where the real learning starts. Reading the wind and adjusting for the corresponding drift is probably the hardest thing to learn. Get a ballistics chart or program to get an idea of what's going on. Also, a wind meter, such as made by Kestrel, would be a great help. There are a number of web-based tutorials as well as written books on this subject. Google is your friend here. Another great option is Milcun in Ontario. They conduct precision rifle training courses for civilians. The fly in the ointment is the present Covid-19 crisis. Most of their courses are cancelled. However, it's something to keep in mind for next year. If you're interested in this, Google Milcun to get to their website.
 
You don't need a kestrel right off the bat the free hornady app is a great one to start with that cost nothing. If you reload and are able to borrow a chronograph or have access to one it will come in handy. There are a few podcasts out there that might help you out as well. Right now I'm enjoying listing to modern sniper there is some good info on there as well as some interesting stories. Another is set up your rifle for you make sure the stock fits you properly. Get a friend to take a picture of you in a few shooting positions then you can see if your cranking your neck or stretching just to get proper eye relief for your scope.
 
RifleDude said:
Well....that's a tall order. First I would educate myself on all the basics of rifle shooting. This would include shooting position, breath control, trigger control, sighting, etc. Then I would practice shooting an accurate .22 rifle at 100y or more. The more you practice the better you'll get. When you can't improve any further, then it's time to switch to your centre fire long range rig. Again, start at 100y to minimize wind drift issues. When you can keep your groups within the capabilities of your rifle and ammo, then start shooting further out. Now here's where the real learning starts. Reading the wind and adjusting for the corresponding drift is probably the hardest thing to learn. Get a ballistics chart or program to get an idea of what's going on. Also, a wind meter, such as made by Kestrel, would be a great help. There are a number of web-based tutorials as well as written books on this subject. Google is your friend here. Another great option is Milcun in Ontario. They conduct precision rifle training courses for civilians. The fly in the ointment is the present Covid-19 crisis. Most of their courses are cancelled. However, it's something to keep in mind for next year. If you're interested in this, Google Milcun to get to their website.
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Kinda blew my budget while gearing up to reload for my rifle, i have a semi .22 that shoot about 2moa so not really a good trainer but i dont have money for a new rifle atm. Again same for the ballistic app i assume i need to know my load velocity for that and i still have to get a chrono.

Even if 2 moa is not great by precision standart, i know the rifle wont do better so if i manage to get 2moa group consistently at 100y with said .22 it still mean something right?

Viper26 said:
Start with the Road to Precision youtube series. It will give you a good idea what you're facing.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCD31A83F7643E23C
There's no magic pill. Just trigger time and lots of it. 22 trainer is a great idea.
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Watched the 3 first video, guy was already pulling some serious shooting at the begining. I will be watching them in the next week but i feel im a little bit too far behind to truly relate right now.


HeliMD said:
You don't need a kestrel right off the bat the free hornady app is a great one to start with that cost nothing. If you reload and are able to borrow a chronograph or have access to one it will come in handy. There are a few podcasts out there that might help you out as well. Right now I'm enjoying listing to modern sniper there is some good info on there as well as some interesting stories. Another is set up your rifle for you make sure the stock fits you properly. Get a friend to take a picture of you in a few shooting positions then you can see if your cranking your neck or stretching just to get proper eye relief for your scope.
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Should be able to adjust the stock for proper cheek weld i got a stock pack to adjust the right height. Scope is still in the mail so i will take all this in consideration when mounting it thanks!

Edit: did go ahead and download that hornady ballistic app, seems quite well done. I will keep it for when i end up needing it. Thanks for the tip!

Thanks for all the good info guys!
 
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Like others have said, there are lots of online sources of legit information. Search around the Snipershide site, maybe sign up for the online training or just find online vids that go over the basics. Learn how to apply the fundamentals so that you can at least confidently shoot sub-moa 5rd groups at 100 yards. Also, since you're learning to hand load, I'd also get some factory match ammo (Federal Gold Medal Match would be a good call) to shoot as a benchmark of how precise your rifle. That way you have something to compare your handholds too.

Ultimately you should get a Kestrel although you don't need a high end one that has a built in ballistic solver. A more basic one that does Density Altitude will serve you well. You want this because A: it will allow you to calibrate yourself so that you can assign a value to the wind you feel at your position and B: because you need accurate environmental data to plug into your free Hornady app to shoot much past say, 600.

If you have access to a range with targets at predetermined ranges (100, 200, 300, etc) or a rangefinder and the means to set up your own targets you can can reverse engineer your muzzle velocity without a chrono. You do this by using an approximate MV in your ballistic app and the environmental data from a local weather station to get your adjustments for set ranges and then shooting groups at those distances and recording your DOPE (data on previous engagements). You then adjust the MV in the app to make the numbers in the app match the real world numbers and you should now have your actual MV.
 
rugbydave said:
Like others have said, there are lots of online sources of legit information. Search around the Snipershide site, maybe sign up for the online training or just find online vids that go over the basics. Learn how to apply the fundamentals so that you can at least confidently shoot sub-moa 5rd groups at 100 yards. Also, since you're learning to hand load, I'd also get some factory match ammo (Federal Gold Medal Match would be a good call) to shoot as a benchmark of how precise your rifle. That way you have something to compare your handholds too.

Ultimately you should get a Kestrel although you don't need a high end one that has a built in ballistic solver. A more basic one that does Density Altitude will serve you well. You want this because A: it will allow you to calibrate yourself so that you can assign a value to the wind you feel at your position and B: because you need accurate environmental data to plug into your free Hornady app to shoot much past say, 600.

If you have access to a range with targets at predetermined ranges (100, 200, 300, etc) or a rangefinder and the means to set up your own targets you can can reverse engineer your muzzle velocity without a chrono. You do this by using an approximate MV in your ballistic app and the environmental data from a local weather station to get your adjustments for set ranges and then shooting groups at those distances and recording your DOPE (data on previous engagements). You then adjust the MV in the app to make the numbers in the app match the real world numbers and you should now have your actual MV.
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Alot of good info thanks alot! The reverse enginering of the MV is just genius i never thought about it. By the time i get good enough to shoot at 600y i should have saved enough for a decent kestrel. I dont have a range but i do have a Nikon 4K black so getting accurate target distance shoudn’t be a problem. I still have to get check at my lgs, since my local CT is out of stock, for Federal GMM 168 or 175gr smk, alot of people on the web repport excellent group with these in Rem 700 5R.
 
Ced1942 said:
Alot of good info thanks alot! The reverse enginering of the MV is just genius i never thought about it. By the time i get good enough to shoot at 600y i should have saved enough for a decent kestrel. I dont have a range but i do have a Nikon 4K black so getting accurate target distance shoudn’t be a problem. I still have to get check at my lgs, since my local CT is out of stock, for Federal GMM 168 or 175gr smk, alot of people on the web repport excellent group with these in Rem 700 5R.
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Generally speaking if FGMM won't group in your .308, you've got a barrel issue.
 
Practicing with a .22LR gun is always good even if your rig is limited to 2MOA. You will get cheap practice in all the basic principles of marksmanship. I wouldn't be surprised if, after shooting a few thousand rounds of 22LR, your groups will be a little less than 2MOA. What's more important, is that your groups will always be centred on the aiming mark and consistent in size. When you achieve that, you know you have mastered the basics. The thing is, when you shoot a lot, it becomes second nature to apply the marksmanship principles, kind of like when you tie your shoes. It's actually quite a process to tie a bow but you don't even think about it when you do it because you do it subconsciously. Welcome to the fraternity of long range shooters. You may even want to join your Provincial Rifle Association and compete in the various diciplines. It's a lot of fun and you'll meet a lot of amazing like-minded people.
 
Gun is used and previous owner reported sub MOA with FGGM so i should be good on the barre side but i will still be looking in town for some id like to try it for myself :p

Went out today with the .22 to get started with the practice. Didn’t have much time so i shot about 10-15 5 shot group before my cheek rest disintegrated (its made of mouse pad strip glued to the right height wrapped tightly in paracord, happen once in a while lol) took me about 2 group to get my zero right at 100y and going. Most we’re 2MOA but the two last we’re exactly 1MOA each. Its great because now i know my rifle is more precise than i believed but more importantly, more than me so i have place for noticable progression which is nice. Scope is a real PoS and trigger is alright at best. If i can get to 1MOA consistently with this rig it should be even easier with my 700.

xtrema-2 said:
https://www.amazon.ca/Long-Range-Sh...&keywords=ryan+cleckner&qid=1591292348&sr=8-1

This is a good place to start.
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Its funny you link this because i actually ordered a copy just yesterday. :D
 
Magpull has a video called Art Of The Precision Rifle which I think is great. It covers almost everything long range precision. They even make hits at a mile with a 308 larue ar.
 
A .22 can be picky when it comes to ammo shooting 50-100 yards. Brands like Eley, Lapua, SKB to name a few will give better results. Learning to read the wind at 100 yards with a .22 will be a great help when you get out to 1000 yards with a .308.

Ballistic apps and Kestrels and range finders are useful if you are shooting/engaging targets at unknown distances. If you are shooting on a square range with known distances they would be a waste of money. A chrony is useful to find or duplicate a MV that you are looking for, but accuracy trumps MV every time, so don't chase numbers when it comes to accuracy.

Contact your Provincial Rifle Association about practice dates and competitions in your area. You will learn 10 times faster "doing" on the range than you will reading a book.
 
maynard said:
A .22 can be picky when it comes to ammo shooting 50-100 yards. Brands like Eley, Lapua, SKB to name a few will give better results. Learning to read the wind at 100 yards with a .22 will be a great help when you get out to 1000 yards with a .308.

Ballistic apps and Kestrels and range finders are useful if you are shooting/engaging targets at unknown distances. If you are shooting on a square range with known distances they would be a waste of money. A chrony is useful to find or duplicate a MV that you are looking for, but accuracy trumps MV every time, so don't chase numbers when it comes to accuracy.

Contact your Provincial Rifle Association about practice dates and competitions in your area. You will learn 10 times faster "doing" on the range than you will reading a book.
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Same with rifle ammo, better ammo get better result but i can get CCI mini mag locally and it shoot well enough to get practice so i feel no need to go in fancy competition and expensive ammunition

And there is no practice or competitions in my area like i said in my OP. Im alone in this adventure so book and info from good people on cgn is all i have. Same for the range a rangefinder is godsend in my case where i have to setup my own target each time i go shooting on crown land.

Thanks for the info!
 
Try some standard velocity ammo like Eley Club or CCI Green tag. There is a reason competitive shooters use expensive ammo. Eley club and CCI Green tag isn't even in the competitive ammo price range. Sometimes wanting to compete as a long range shooter also means being a long range driver. There are times that I have driven 8 hours each way to go to a weekend competition. Or even a short 4 hour drive each way for a one day competition. 1000 yard ranges/competitions are few and far between here in Canada.
 
Im stuck with CT for ammo and both these ammo are not available here (hell atm i can’t even get cci mini mag) so can’t try either but i did try the bulk cci standart velocity and accuracy was less good than with mini mag... for the few round it fired. My .22 is semi auto and CCI SV jammed every two round so ill stick to mini mag lol. My .22 is mostly just for practice the basic before switching to my centerfire rig.

maynard said:
Try some standard velocity ammo like Eley Club or CCI Green tag. There is a reason competitive shooters use expensive ammo. Eley club and CCI Green tag isn't even in the competitive ammo price range. Sometimes wanting to compete as a long range shooter also means being a long range driver. There are times that I have driven 8 hours each way to go to a weekend competition. Or even a short 4 hour drive each way for a one day competition. 1000 yard ranges/competitions are few and far between here in Canada.
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Thats the thing, i dont want to. The one and only person i plan to challenge is myself. If there was event close by id try for sure but im not driving 8 hour to go to anywhere. I just want to push myself and see how good i can get and plink at long range. Not looking into competition and 3-4k custom rifle and all its not something that appeal to me at all
 
Being that this is posted in the Long Range/Precision Rifles Competitions forum, I just assumed that you were looking to get into competition shooting. I am just trying to pass on information that I have learned over the year either through some very good mentors, or learned the hard way trying to do it myself.
From what I can see one of your limiting factors is your smallbore gun. I am not suggesting running out and buying an Anschutz but maybe a used bolt action Savage or something that shoots better than 2 MOA.
Being able to shooting tight groups to the best of your ability with a smallbore rifle helps when you move to a fullbore rifle. If your smallbore rifle will only shoot 2 MOA on a good day when you do your part, I just can't see that as meaningful practice. Unless of course your rifle/ammo/you are usually happy with a 3-4 MOA group.
When it comes to shooting longer ranges there isn't anything that you do differently from a technical point of view that you don't do at short range. By this I mean how you hold the rifle, position, breathing, trigger control, shot release and follow through. What does come into play besides the proper sight adjustment for the distance being shot, is learning to read the wind.
Once you master reading the wind at long range please let me know, some days I think I have if figured out and some days it is like I don't have a clue. Wind flags lie.
 
Yeah kinda my fault on this. Figured this was the right section since i couldn’t find one for just casual precision shooting. I have no doupt it would be way easier attending to competition to learn, if everyone over there is as helpful as here it must be a really great learning experience!:) but sadly its not an option for me.
Right now funds are tight but something like a CZ 455, savage mk2 or something alike to have a nice bolt accurate .22 is my next buy thats for sure. The 2MOA group with my current is what i can without much effort. My last two groups last time before i left were 1" and 1"1/8 each, so i think there is room for improvement on my par since the gun seems to be capable of more.

Im far from wind reading but it look to be the hardest part to learn to deal with at long range. Most of the rest of the stuff if you enter the right data the ballistic app will do the rest for you. Thanks for the help, seems my path will be long and full of trial error haha
 
Surveyor's tape or trail marking tape make great wind flags for 50-100 yards. Wrap the end with an elastic band around an empty 9mm case and stick it on a wooden dowel half way to your target and a couple more to the sides of your target, so you can see them through your scope. Even a slight breeze will show on the flags and if you don't adjust your point of aim, you will see the results on the target. Mastering the wind at 100 yards with a .22 will be great help trying to figure it out at long range with a fullbore rifle.
Wind flags are only part of trying to figure out the wind, you also need to watch the mirage.
 
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