How to help someone that is recoil/noise shy?

[two-dogs]

That is NOT the way to teach someone to shoot.

The key is to learn to shoot before you try to handle recoil while you shoot. There is no substitute for learning on a gun that induces no fear, and then practicing until you can shoot it well while using proper technique. Proper technique is essential to shooting a heavy recoiling gun well, so proper technique should be the first goal. Once that is established, you can move gradually up the recoil scale so the shooters can see that the proper technique makes recoil manageable.

Start with a .22RF (with hearing protection) and teach them well. When they ask for something bigger, move up through a .22 center fire shooting lots of rounds preserving technique, to maybe a .243, and then onto one of the .30-06 cased cartridges, and then I would expect they will be just fine on their own. If while you are watching, they flinch in any way, move back down and re-establish the good shooting form. Never let them shoot anything bigger until they can shoot smaller stuff properly. Emphasize shooting properly all the time, and they will be thinking about that rather than anticipating recoil.

Never, ever, not once, should you try to "impress them" by letting them shoot something that might (especially if they do not yet have good technique) actually hurt them. Never.

very nicely said. I agree.

 

[horshur]

IMHO, while shooting a .22 is better than no shooting at all, it will not address being startled by the bang, or provide a way to think through the flinch reflex. Mentally, when a shooter chambers a centerfire cartridge, it produces a different mindset then when he loads a rimfire cartridge, and powder puff loads are the only way to get in the way of that. Concentrating on the mechanics of the shot to the exclusion of everything else is how to train a shooter to think through the flinch reflex, whether the cartridge is a .250 Savage or a .460 Weatherby.

you know what.....I never have really worked thru a flinch. Sure I can sit and dry fire all day..shoot tiny groups with a 22.... even on the bench with a big gun you can settle yourself....just get away from a controled situation, a bit out of breath, too much coffee, a nice buck standing broadside.......any excitement!

I know it is not really the subject of the thread.......most teenage girls(boys) cannot tolerate the beating they take(physicaly&mentaly) shooting a centerfire and I wouldn't recommend anyone setting them up to shoot a centerfire much at all. A nice .22 to learn fundamentals. They do not even need to have shot the centerfire prior to going hunting with it in fact I would recomend against it.

 

[BCRider]

There seems to be a lot of good options to try. But I'm not sure that you guys are hitting what seems to be the two big root issues.

First is that it would appear that Cleftwynd is dealing with "once a year" hunting types that don't get out and shoot regularly. Good shooting skills seem to be highly perishable for many folks and time away from the rifle can lead to issues when it's picked up again. I suspect that the annual sighting in done before hunting season opens is as much to get the shooters back in the groove and avoiding things like flinching as it is to confirm that the scope isn't too dusty to use.

Second is that it sounds like he's got an older group of buddy's. And yeah, us older types can tend to have "issues" with being told how to do something. It's likely best to not try unless they are looking for help and advice.

My own contribution that has helped me and a few others is to get them to pull the trigger smoothly all the way to the rear stop and HOLD IT THERE through the fire, smoke, noise and recoil and still be holding it back fully when the dust settles. The commitment to pull it back and HOLD it means that they don't react at least in that one way to the BANG!. It also tends to give them something else to think about instead of the sharp smack to the shoulder that is coming.

 

[Redlich]

A lot of good points here. I have an old cooey single shot 22 that has a weak firing pin spring. It will fail to fire maybe 10-15% of the time on top of bad primers in the ammunition itself. I actually find this useful because its unpredictable and gives me instant feedback on any flinch or break in form. I'm not suggesting trying to find a rifle that misfires but I can vouch for the dummy round effect.

Another factor that hasn't been mentioned is having a quality trigger. This won't solve problems in form, but it will make a flinch worse in my experience. When I'm using triggers with a pull weight in the 8 pound range or more it becomes much harder to do a slow steady and gradual pull without breaking form, especially in off hand. Many factory rifles, military rifles and older rifles are guilty of this. Personally, I have even caught myself flinching just in anticipation of the trigger pull weight of some rifles!

 

[horshur]

A lot of good points here. I have an old cooey single shot 22 that has a weak firing pin spring. It will fail to fire maybe 10-15% of the time on top of bad primers in the ammunition itself. I actually find this useful because its unpredictable and gives me instant feedback on any flinch or break in form. I'm not suggesting trying to find a rifle that misfires but I can vouch for the dummy round effect.

Another factor that hasn't been mentioned is having a quality trigger. This won't solve problems in form, but it will make a flinch worse in my experience. When I'm using triggers with a pull weight in the 8 pound range or more it becomes much harder to do a slow steady and gradual pull without breaking form, especially in off hand. Many factory rifles, military rifles and older rifles are guilty of this. Personally, I have even caught myself flinching just in anticipation of the trigger pull weight of some rifles!

actually I thought of mentioning this and forgot...boy a good trigger can mitigate some flinch..however with the pressure turned up I find they are shooting too soon...the gun does go off unexpectedly before they really are ready.

to me there is such a big gap between practice/target shooting and hunting situation. With kids(adults) I find they are more apt to miss a close shot on game then a further shot...a miss is often really a type of flinch.

 

[Cleftwynd]

Wow, so much info and good advice from experience here...

BCRider has it right, and I was only asking about those that are trying to improve. Out shooting them with their own rifles showed them they are doing something wrong. So they want to correct it. I was looking for some advice in how to teach, since I am no teacher, with good solid advice. I don't want to start someone off on the wrong foot, just because I can overcome the fear that causes a flinch, doesn't make me an expert.

 

[Boomer]

you know what.....I never have really worked thru a flinch. Sure I can sit and dry fire all day..shoot tiny groups with a 22.... even on the bench with a big gun you can settle yourself....just get away from a controled situation, a bit out of breath, too much coffee, a nice buck standing broadside.......any excitement!

I know it is not really the subject of the thread.......most teenage girls(boys) cannot tolerate the beating they take(physicaly&mentaly) shooting a centerfire and I wouldn't recommend anyone setting them up to shoot a centerfire much at all. A nice .22 to learn fundamentals. They do not even need to have shot the centerfire prior to going hunting with it in fact I would recomend against it.

If you can't think through the flinch, you don't have enough to do and you're taking to much time to do it. Don't stare endlessly at the target wondering how much this is going to hurt. By the time you've considered the correct position, natural point of aim, sight picture, breathing, trigger control, and then, provided your trigger is manageable, you actually press the trigger, there isn't time for the recoil bogyman to enter you consciousness. There is seldom any reason to hold your aim longer than 5 seconds. An important consideration though is that the shot comes as a surprise, anticipation is a killer. In a football game, you don't flinch before being sacked. Yet being tackled is rougher then the nudge you get on your shoulder from the rifle, but because you don't know exactly when its going to happen, when it does you haven't anticipated it. Flinching is anticipation. Recoil, within reason, doesn't matter. Its useful to believe that.

If you handload, or have access to handloaded ammo, there is no reason to limit the student's shooting to a rimfire. In fact, I believe that sole use of a rimfire creates a flinching problem, rather than solves it. Whereas the rimfire can be a useful learning tool when used in conjunction with a lightly loaded centerfire, if the student is taught that the big, long, cartridges are going to hurt him, his mindset is damaged even before he fires his first shot. But once he's finished his shooting lesson, he and his pals will head out and get pounded while attempting to get that football past one another. And that doesn't scare him.