How widespread counterfeit?

[Bobby Ironsights]

Hi, How widespread are counterfeit flintlocks and/or percussion arms, do you think.

I've recently seen a gun that is being touted as an actual 200 year old firearm, and it looks like a joke, and I had to wonder.

I know there are some old kyber pass guns floating around, but do you think anyone is trying to beat up a replica, make a few marques, drill a touchhole and float one in Canada, or the U.S.?

 

[mooncoon]

I think that there are probably some high end guns that are skillfully counterfeited but I don't think it is common in the low to mid range guns. On the other hand I think it is common for sellers, often out of ignorance, to inaccurately describe a gun as an antique and it is also fairly common to find guns which have lost their original locks and had new antique ones installed. Finally there are a group of guns which were basically made up from old parts as souvenir guns that originate in India. Antique parts smuggled out of the armories at the end of the raj system and then assembled. The locks of those guns are often considerably buggered with nails in place of screws and so forth. You can usually recognize them by the new wood if you remove the lock or the barrel.
Bottom line is that unless you know the seller and his/her level of knowledge, you have to look scrupulously at the fit of the lock, appropriateness of the lock and so forth and decide for yourself what you believe the gun is.

cheers mooncoon

 

[calgarychef1]

counterfeit

The world wide counterfitting of antiques is a multi billion dollar industry. That should answer your question. It's not worth the time and hassle to fake an elcheapo firearm though.

the chef

 

[Smokepole]

Not a counterfeit, but made from scratch. Just to show what can be done.

 

[Dantforth]

I haven't seen any flat out fakes but then I haven't been dealing in high and firearms and I stay in my area of expertise. I can say that I have seen many which have been altered or are parts guns and how many of the military rifles and muskets have had Regimental numbers added to enhance the value? Dave

 

[JP]

Yes I know of several cases:

- A fellow in Quebec, was a legendary figure in this domain, but he died a few years ago. Unfortunately is work is still floating around in collector's circle all over Quebec, Ontario and New England.

- Another, fellow in Ontario a well known restorer of Brown Bess muskets, would remove original parts and replace them with reprocduction parts. When he had enough original parts he would build a Long Land Brown Bess. Very hard to recognized as a fake since all the parts were original. He is also dead by the way.

- Another case told to me by a fellow who worked in the Museum circuit, is the case of a fellow in Europe who produced fake Matchlock musket. He would use old 16/17th century door lock and hinges and used the steel to forge the metal parts of the Matchlock. He would buy also old 16/17th century large heavy thick wooden tables. He take apart the tables and use he heavy beams to make rifle stocks. Since all the pieces came from centuries old materials his fakes were very hard to spot.

- More recently, is a lot of the copies of British Arms coming out of the Khyber pass region (Afghanistan/Pakistan). Original parts mixed in with new made parts.