Hunt Camp Woes

DVXDUDE said:
That's what I mean about mismanagement. Why do they cut adult tags back every year but give calf tags to EVERYONE that applies. If you dont buy a tag every year you were out of Pool A and then you have almost zero chance of getting an adult tag the next year. Like WTF, How does that make sense? Is almost like they want the moose population so low there wont be a hunting season soon. (Changed a bit this year but still not much better IMO)


Camps perspective, We cancel the moose hunt and 75% of members are gone and 95% of guests are gone. Might as well put the forsale signs up now. Such bull####, Even if we did stop hunting for a few years, Natives still moose hunt all year long and massacre them every chance they get.
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Calf tags will be very limited for the 2021 season, as everything will be points system. This might work to your advantage if you have several guys that have not drawn tags recently. Bull tags will be available again.

Ive hunted with several camps, and Ive always thought it best to be a guest. Dont mind the work part, but not involved with the politics or drama. Just pay to hunt the week, but not obligated to anything.

Mostly have been hunting alone or at a camp that a buddy owns, but theres only 3 of us that hunt there, and we saw 20 deer this year, shot 2 bucks.
 
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hammering hank said:
Wolf hunting prohibited??? Did something change as last i checked the surrounding area of algonquin you halfto buy a tag (wolf/coyote) which 2 are available per hunter per year 1 at a time. Ill need to double check this now.

Budy and i took over ownership of a camp in 53A, havent hunted it really much yet as we need to sort the decrepid camp out but the deer sign and moose looks very promising. Populations are typically cyclic and wish you well op, i hope you are able to figure out a solution. I wish we owned our camp in a way but sit on a ministry lup which is a drop in the bucket for annual fees.
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No wolf or coyote season in townships around the Park
 
IMHO,
I'd buy out the rest of the crew. I have family and friends in that area. They bow hunt deer in their own backyard on 5 acre lots (and get bucks every year). There's no reason to not get one on 700 acres! Bring in a few new younger guys willing to do the work. Clear more land, put in food plots, clear out predators, and buy out the old guys.

You mentioned shares were worth $15,000 and that there were 12 members. So, for under 200K you could have 700 acres! At under $300 an acre you're stealing this land. Buy it all before one of the members gets it assessed!

Send me a PM. I may be interested in buying the entire lot.
 
greenjeepguy100 said:
You mentioned shares were worth $15,000 and that there were 12 members. So, for under 200K you could have 700 acres! At under $300 an acre you're stealing this land. Buy it all before one of the members gets it assessed!
Send me a PM. I may be interested in buying the entire lot.
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I’m doubtful all 12 of the remaining members would consider selling...the emotional attachment some members likely have to the camp probably cannot be bought.
 
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My dad and grandfather bought our camp in 1970in WMU 56. The deer population was always cyclical and some years they didn’t see a thing. The main group switched to moose in the mid 90’s and always did well with tags and animals but the last few years have been tag free so I don’t bother going. Every year for the last 5-6 they’ve seen 10-20 deer and 6-10 moose and that’s with mostly old guys not going very far or staying out too long. If the deer population is low, there’s a reason, it’s either habitat, competition with moose, predators, over hunting/poaching or a combination of the above. Guys that don’t have hunt camps move around constantly and generally find themselves going where they find sign and/or better conditions but hunt campers are stuck with what they’ve got, year in and year out. For me, I have a young family so time away is damn hard to get, I want to hunt hard when I do so the last few years I’ve gone stateside down to southern Illinois where the deer are thick and success is almost guaranteed. It’s a ton of fun, no drama, no politics, no endless camp maintenance projects. I still enjoy camp trips but the hunting can leave a lot to be desired. I’d rather go fishing, exploring, target shooting and screwing around off the map for the weekend.

Patrick
 
Our moose camp is in WMU56, and we see moose, deer and bear every year. But as others have said, getting a tag for an adult moose is an issue & I am not a fan of shooting moose calves. Personally I think the moose calf hunt is just a tax grab by the provincial gov, very few calves are shot and shooting the calves means they won't grow up to be adult moose.

I also think it is ridiculous that the coyotes & wolves are protected, the 'Algonquin' wolf is a figment of imagination, they are a mix of coyote, domestic dog & wolf...

Me and a couple other guys in our camp have tried to encourage the other guys to get into a spring bear hunt. We have taken a couple bears, but baiting & travel to bait makes it difficult... Most of the guys are not interested.

One member of our group has taken several nice bucks out of the camp in the 2nd week of the deer rifle season. It's dicey with the remote location/weather etc and IIRC the deer taken, were the deer seen. It's not like you can pick & chose.

I'm curious how the upcoming changes to the moose system will affect things. I guess time will tell...

Cheers
Jay
 
well the science is behind the moose calf season.

It make no sense to shoot a cow moose, a calf only has a 50% chance of surviving the winter, and the cow will breed again the next fall.

I was a little skeptical when Alberta changed the tags in a few zones, but general tags for moose were not sustainable. At one time you could get a general tag and shoot any moose you saw. Then there were Bull only and some open seasons. Now almost everything is on the draw and its point based, and it does not matter if your hunting as a group, the points are awarded to each individual based on how many times they have applied and were not successful.

The zone I hunt is a bull or calf tag zone, cows are not shot (legally) and from experience the moose population is booming compared to 20 years ago.

Now a general moose tag is only valid in a few zones and only for archery, oddly enough my back yard is one of those zones Sep 1 - Nov 30 I can shoot any moose I see in my backyard with a bow and arrow, but not crossbow, using a general moose tag. I guess I need to plant more peas, the moose really seemed to like the ones in my wife's garden last fall.


As for the hunt camp social aspects I can see that. I have hunted where we set up our trailers / campers in the same site and share the firepit in the evenings.
 
DOUGLAS D said:
Just a suggestion because I know zero about hunting deer with dogs but have you given any thought to the dogs being your problem?
Seven hundred acres sounds like a lot but I'm pretty sure a 6 pack of Beagles could push a lot of deer to greener pastures in short order.
Hunting in western Canada and seeing a pack of dogs running deer usually ends poorly for the dogs not the deer.
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That is the realization that we are coming too. No dogs this year.
 
Runningfool said:
Maybe you’ve got the wrong picture of what it is like. I’m sure some hunt camps are like you describe. Here is what my deer season looks like:

October 1 - December 31 I hunt in the bush around home with my bow (save for the week I spend up north at “hunt camp” and the week of shotgun season where I hunt with my shotgun). There are a lot of deer in southwestern Ontario so odds are pretty good I’m going to get some meat....and when it’s been feeding on southwestern Ontario corn and soybeans it’s usually pretty tasty meat!

The week I spend up north at hunt camp isn’t with a big group. 4 or 5 of the best guys you could hope to meet. Every morning we all head out in different directions and do our own thing...usually we make our way back around lunch time to have a bite to eat, share stories of our morning, and then head back out. By about an hour after legal light ends we are all back at camp, hang up our gear, grab a drink, share our afternoon adventures, and have a nice dinner. After the dishes are done we head out and hang around the fire, sipping a drink or two and talk about what we plan to do and where we plan to go tomorrow. It sounds simple but it is glorious!

Since I hunt the other 11 weeks of the season solo, a week with some good friends in vastly different geography is a thing I look forward to despite the scarcity of deer. It is hunting and it is a vacation...hunting doesn’t always mean you come home with meat just like a vacation doesn’t always mean you lay around and do nothing. For me it’s like stepping back in time for a week and I’d do it regardless of the odds.
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Mate, Thanks for putting this so Simply, I, being an outsider here, was a little shocked at the replies about the Anti Hunt Camp Folk on CGN in this thread...

Theres so many Variables about WHY, every single person goes to their Hunt Camp and so many variables in what those hunters do BEFORE and AFTER their week or 2 at Hunt Camp............ that it seems so selfish an ignorant to piss on the hunt campers parade so easily as shown here.


Im like You mate, 87% of my hunting is SOLO to the core of the meaning....... Me, My Gun, my Campfire, My company............. I sure as hell look Forward to our week to 10 days Hunt Camp in the Wonnangatta Valley of Australia each year............. for those exact Reasons...

- OP
Sorry i am not much help with the Camp dilema , i feel sowing better grasses, predator control albeit foot snares :p , Summer vacancy for the Hut to cover some Costs, Rent it out per week etc.
recruit new guys who are Rinella fans an watch Bakc 40 on youtube :D
 
Our hunting season are getting to about the same as yours at camp. We have now turned it into more of a bear camp because that is the only game that is plentiful now. Still enjoy all the time spent up there though even if there is no deer or moose.
 
That week in the camp is well worth the $500.00 it costs each of us. Most of that money is for gas just to get there but in order to get an adult Moose tag you have to go where they are. We just build (and tear down) a Bivouac on crown land and have a couple of camp sites that you have work at to get the last little bit so one has been always available. Do we get a moose every year? No. Do we see moose every year? No. Do we hunt from daybreak to sunset? No. Do we have a good time. Hell yes.
We go in 4 days before opening season so the camp is built and organized and we have enough wood cut for a good part of the week so that when opening morning comes we are free to hunt.
Bringing home a moose would be a bonus but a week in camp is the real thrill.
If you have a permanent camp and you can farm it out to others to use as a cottage to help cover the costs I say go for it. I personally would not go for it as I hate the bugs which usually are not around in October.
Keep the camp going!
 
Boy, all I can say is that I'm glad I live in BC.

I couldn't stand the cluster####s that folks call hunting camps in Ontario.

I just pile my stuff into my pickup and go bear or deer hunting.

Moose, well yeah, that is an issue and depends on winning the limited entry lottery but usually I do that with two other guys and we set up a more elaborate camp.
 
Rugdoc said:
Boy, all I can say is that I'm glad I live in BC.

I couldn't stand the cluster####s that folks call hunting camps in Ontario.

I just pile my stuff into my pickup and go bear or deer hunting.

Moose, well yeah, that is an issue and depends on winning the limited entry lottery but usually I do that with two other guys and we set up a more elaborate camp.
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I’m glad you live in BC as well...hunters who are so close-minded that they cannot even contemplate that just maybe their way isn’t the be all and end all should stay where they are and focus on patting themselves on the back. You just pile your stuff into your pickup and go hunting? Bravo!

I don’t know you, how you hunt, or what hunting in BC is all about but as a fellow hunter I have enough sense and respect for the fraternity of hunters to avoid referring to the type of hunting you do as a clusterf##k.
 
WhelanLad said:
Mate, Thanks for putting this so Simply, I, being an outsider here, was a little shocked at the replies about the Anti Hunt Camp Folk on CGN in this thread...

Theres so many Variables about WHY, every single person goes to their Hunt Camp and so many variables in what those hunters do BEFORE and AFTER their week or 2 at Hunt Camp............ that it seems so selfish an ignorant to piss on the hunt campers parade so easily as shown here.


Im like You mate, 87% of my hunting is SOLO to the core of the meaning....... Me, My Gun, my Campfire, My company............. I sure as hell look Forward to our week to 10 days Hunt Camp in the Wonnangatta Valley of Australia each year............. for those exact Reasons.
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Right back at you mate! It is nice to know that regardless of where on the globe we are from, at the basic level, all of us hunters are the same...it’s that universal experience of hunting that allows us to recognize and acknowledge it in each other. A thousand years from now this world will look a lot different but there will be guys like us, doing their own thing most of the time, but also looking forward to those 10 days. Cheers!
 
Runningfool said:
I’m glad you live in BC as well...hunters who are so close-minded that they cannot even contemplate that just maybe their way isn’t the be all and end all should stay where they are and focus on patting themselves on the back. You just pile your stuff into your pickup and go hunting? Bravo!

I don’t know you, how you hunt, or what hunting in BC is all about but as a fellow hunter I have enough sense and respect for the fraternity of hunters to avoid referring to the type of hunting you do as a clusterf##k.
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This!!! Very well said and my thoughts exactly.
 
Reading this thread I get the impression that some people equate hunting as killing an animal. While that is definitely one part of it, it is not in and of itself hunting. Hunting is an all encompassing activity, camping, scouting, camaraderie which is number one for me, unless you hunt by yourself. The feeling of getting out and enjoying the outdoors and seeing wildlife in their natural environment, the feeling of simply being in a stress free situation, relaxing and enjoying good company while having an outdoors meal and a drink around the campfire. While taking an animal is our ultimate goal, it is not our only goal. On many occasions I have let legal animals walk rather than ending my season too early. This is my definition of hunting, others may feel differently and as long as you feel fulfilled in your quest, good for you. I hunt both by myself and also in a small group, both are satisfying.
 
Living in Alberta now, in an area that has historically had good hunting, but the Alberta version of 'hunting camp' is a camper or wall tent pulled out someplace in the bush or a remote camp you've hiked into, I'd love to have access to 700 acres to play with for a hunting area. Even dealing with predators and poaching and other hunters, you really should have more deer around- and you might, they might just not be where you think they are.

I'll second every suggestion to take as many bears, coyotes and wolves as you can, every year. Spend some vacation time up there in the spring and work in some food plots. These WILL attract deer, etc as well as your bears- makes baiting the bears easier. Walk/scout as much as you can, put cameras out. Come up with a plan for the group to follow to encourage the deer population- let the little bucks grow, cull out the ones that can be seen to be getting older but don't have the headgear to match. Improve the genetics- it will take time but you're going to need to start looking for new, younger hunters to 'buy in' on the shares being sold, but sell it as a proposition to improve hunting in the area first and foremost. Let some cottagers and fishing folk come in when it's NOT hunting season to help pay the taxes, etc. Make jobs like cutting wood, clearing brush etc part of the buy-in.

I grew up in Ontario, my brothers and parents still live there. My brother's hunting camp/group up north is seeing less success every year too. Unfortunately with a brain-dead Ministry hunters with camps are going to have to take it upon themselves to really make a difference- and that includes getting involved with the MNR at every opportunity as well as other conservation groups if we want to keep things alive moving into the future. Some hunting seasons might have to be bears/birds and small game only, or even small game/birds only, to take the pressure off the deer. Just a few thoughts from a transplant lol.
 
DVXDUDE said:
Its a sad time here on Ontario in regards to big game hunting at our hunt camp. First I'll give a bit of history with the camp.

We have owned it since 1990 in WMU49. We own 700 acres and surrounded my crown land and have 12 current members. Camp has 16 beds so is able to have 16 members but most we have had is 14. Age of members ranks from 30-80 years old. Majority or members are 60+ (only 3 of us under 40)

We have always had guests for the moose and deer hunt to pay for taxes and other expenses. We have never made money on the hunts, just covered our costs for the camp to keep everything a float.

Now.....we havnt had an adult moose tag in 5 years. Calf hunt every year with 10-12 guys usually getting a calf which ends up with about 10lbs of meat each. I dont agree with this and dont participate anymore)


Deer hunt we have 10-15 hunters every year(usually half members half guests) and we havnt shot a deer in 3 years (last good buck was 2011) we have beagles and we have enough guys to block and cover every spot possible and noone even SEEN deer sign the last year. 2017 last year I hunted as well and now just hunt that week at home. They seen 8 moose during the deer hunt, 5 different bulls forsure as well.

Most guests have lost interest now, Dont blame them as why pay 400-500$ a week for piss poor hunting. Even though we all enjoy the time away up north is pretty discouraging going out hunting when the game just isnt there.

So we are struggling to find guests to come hunting which means camp members are now paying more to keep the camp going and with the age of some members now they know it's not worth it and are giving their notice of selling their share. (Shares valued at 15000$ now) so every member that sells, other members are paying them off. So with dues and paying off shares being sold I'm paying around $3000 a year for the camp, and I don't hunt there anymore (gave up 2017 and hunt elsewhere now)

I'm 3rd youngest member so im the future of this camp but I dont have very high hopes. 15 years ago the camp had a plan of keep buying more land and we were in good shape to do so but not anymore.

I know of other camps in the same WMU in the same boat. The hunting just sucks and hunters are looking elsewhere.

We are debating to try a bear hunt one year instead of moose/deer. Then we are just baiting bears and other predators into our camp and there is already no shortage or these damn things. Moose and other animals have it hard enough as it is. Plus no one really wants to eat bear besides a few of us so no real motivation to do this. Plus it's a lot of work and $$ baiting

We want to keep this an HUNTING camp only, we have people interested in buying a share but they want to use our camp as a cottage, Not keep it as exclusive hunting camp only.

Sorry for the long rambling rant but I'm curious if anyone else is in the same boat, Costs and terrible hunting are killing our camp. Ontario seems like the most mismanaged province in regards to hunting. Every year it gets harder and more costly and we aren't getting any younger.
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A common problem with many camps in ON.

Just a few thoughts......What about summer rentals...4 wheeling or fishing?? What about spring bear guiding (BMA opportunity?) Wild turkey? Upland? Waterfowl?
 
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