Hunter/Farmer partnership program.

IAMAWILDPARTY

IAMAWILDPARTY

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Hey all, I've got a few questions and would appreciate any suggestions.

As I was looking through the hunter mentorship program thread on CGN a few months ago, I had two thoughts:
-this is a confusing mess
-something like this should exist to set up farmers with hunters for pest control (though it should be a bit neater)

Anyway, in a class I'm taking (forest conservation, yeah, woohoo for liberal arts degrees!) I need to talk about a conservation issue, and propose various action plans.

The issue I intend to look at is problem coyotes, primarily in Southern Ontario. I intend to take the angle of a local hunting organization which is looking to set up a program that sets up farmers who have pest control problems with hunters.

The program would be primarily online-based, at least initially, and would be run largely by the community who uses it (CGN seems pretty well moderated, why can't this service be?), with some MNR oversight, and advertising in things like the Hunting Regs and maybe something else which makes farmers more likely to see it.

The position argued would be trying to make a couple of points:
-coyotes cost farmers (and municipalities, after claims are made) a lot of money
-this program would cost very little and helps provide a recreation activity for residents


Has such a program been suggested in the past, on CGN or elsewhere?

If anyone has any useful links or suggestions, either on similar programs or on some coyote info(especially area-specific), they'd be greatly appreciated.

This is a bit of writing I've put together in the class previously, it's related and is kind of the way I'll be writing.


Rural regions:
Hunters themselves are a valuable resource for the MNR and just as the Ministry has worked with them historically to manage deer populations, they should not be overlooked in areas where they might be deployed to the mutual benefit of hunters and farmers. A variety of emergent problems have developed recently with enlisting the help of hunters and trappers for coyote management, and they include:

Decreasing market demand for coyote fur

Difficulties associated with securing hunting permissions where services may be needed (the idea that going and knocking on the doors of farmers to see who wants a hunter on their land is a hassle.)

Hunting in crown land forested areas that may be popular for coyote hunters, such as the Nonquon wildlife area, has a reduced effect on problem coyotes due to the nature of the animal. Much coyote behaviour is learned and problem coyotes are repeat offenders, so culling primarily forest-dwelling coyotes does little to help farmers.

Culling coyotes without the help of resident hunters can be prohibitively expensive for the MNR and municipalities, so efforts to encourage resident hunters could be very cost-effective, with the added benefit of increasing recreational opportunities for residents. A small, free, web-based service, run primarily by members of hunting and farmers' associations (and overseen by the MNR) could connect willing hunters to farmers looking for assistance with problem coyotes in their region. The primary reason for a community-run service with some small initial launch support by the MNR(such as information distribution in pre-existing publications for farmers and hunters) is cost-effectiveness. A further benefit is a community-run service could more quickly and effectively make changes based on user feedback. The MNR is well aware of the problems hunters in southern Ontario have with securing hunting grounds, and is also involved in pest control for farmers, so it is in a uniquely appropriate position to launch such a program.

The Ministry should continue to evaluate the implementation of controversial snaring practices and whether they should be expanded or eliminated. Feedback from residents is critical in deciding how to proceed, and the ministry should expand on its efforts to educate farmers on the habits of coyotes and preventative measures for dealing with them.
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I don't think such a program exists, I seem to recall though a loong time ago that there was a website called ontariohunting or something like that and they had a farmer/hunter section but when I tried to go back and find it again I can't find it for the life of me... So as far as I know it does not exist however if successful that would be awesome! Especially for helping noobies such as myself get into it more because it would be easier to find land to hunt and build connections with farmers in the area.
 
wheelin_ca said:
I believe the OFAH tried something like that... a specific forum where hunters and farmers could meet.... it didn't work.
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Oh, cool, thanks for the heads-up.

I suppose the primary reason it wouldn't work is because farmers don't like the idea of random internet strangers showing up with guns. Sound about right?
 
I think a Hunter/farmer partnership would be tough to make work - the primary reason being the hunter has a lot more to gain from this partnership than the farmer. To the hunter it's access to prime private property to enjoy a passion. To the farmer it's perhaps thinning out a few coyotes or deer which probably won't make much of a difference to the bottom line in the long run.

As long as this exists it will always be the hunter that comes "Cap in hand" to ask permission for access. Both parties are well aware of that.

The hunter risks nothing - At the end of the day he is going home with all his equipment intact and hopefully a game animal and good memories - the farmer not necessarily so.

As long as there is this risk imbalance it will be the farmer that calls the tune,
 
Suggestions on leveling this relationship out? Though a monetary exchange?
(I appreciate that this has failed in the past and likely would in the future, just trying to get as many angles as I can, and I appreciate the comments.)




PSE said:
I think a Hunter/farmer partnership would be tough to make work - the primary reason being the hunter has a lot more to gain from this partnership than the farmer. To the hunter it's access to prime private property to enjoy a passion. To the farmer it's perhaps thinning out a few coyotes or deer which probably won't make much of a difference to the bottom line in the long run.

As long as this exists it will always be the hunter that comes "Cap in hand" to ask permission for access. Both parties are well aware of that.

The hunter risks nothing - At the end of the day he is going home with all his equipment intact and hopefully a game animal and good memories - the farmer not necessarily so.

As long as there is this risk imbalance it will be the farmer that calls the tune,
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IAMAWILDPARTY said:
Oh, cool, thanks for the heads-up.

I suppose the primary reason it wouldn't work is because farmers don't like the idea of random internet strangers showing up with guns. Sound about right?
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pretty much, I went on the site a few times, and it did seem like it was missing the "farmers" half of it.

I think farmers prefer a more personal approach, and would rather have some sort of relationship with the hunter.

Lots of adds on kijiji for hunters looking for farmers. Whether or not they get responses i dont know.

I think the best bet would be to hang out at a feed store, and talk to people, or maybe a JD dealership?
 
wheelin_ca said:
pretty much, I went on the site a few times, and it did seem like it was missing the "farmers" half of it.

I think farmers prefer a more personal approach, and would rather have some sort of relationship with the hunter.

Lots of adds on kijiji for hunters looking for farmers. Whether or not they get responses i dont know.

I think the best bet would be to hang out at a feed store, and talk to people, or maybe a JD dealership?
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You're probably correct.

Although, if a program was to be successful, what would be aspects which would improve it's viability? What are features farmers or hunters would like to see?Enticing farmers would be fundamental to success, which I expected. Are there realistic methods which could entice farmers?

Maybe there aren't.

These are, of course, just musings for a silly little project.
I was just looking to see if there was something very similar existing already. The fact that it may have failed before doesn't mean I can't propose it in my assignment.
 
As a hunter with a family farm in Eastern Ontario I can point out a few things from the farming end. We cannot trust hunters (or anybody for that matter), ie Bob asks permission for himself to hunt ducks on one of our ponds we say yes, then Bob brings a friend, next week friend brings a friend etc and then we have 50 strangers coming and going. On a weekly basis we have to put the run on a half a dozen trespassers from hunters/fishermen to hikers who open our gates because they feel we have nothing better to do than chase loose cows around all day. We even have tenants who rent houses from us on the farm and we tell them they are only renting the house, not the farm and then they go out and bait/poach from on our property because it is convenient (by the way, the police and MNR are useless in enforcing these matters) even thought all around the house is nice bright 4" red circles everywhere. Liability insurance for us is getting harder and harder for us to maintain, every year the brokers are covering us with less and charge more. (Yes I know, you're going to pull out that OFAH card and say "I'm covered" but it doesn't work that way, you fall down one of our rock cliffs and your family sues us because you can't work any more and say there should have been a warning sign) This is just the tip of the iceberg. In the end, it ain't going to work in this day and age. Best purchase some land of your own and join the game.
 
^ Completely agree.

That's why a guy we hunt with bought a 98 acre piece of land 2 years ago(like 35% bush/65% open field), lets a farmer use the 50 or so acres of farm-able land(gets a few thousand yearly, and deer don't mind the food). But that only solves half the problem.

There are trespassers everywhere and it can be extremely difficult and tedious to deal with it, and then there will always be others next year or the next after. My dad has permission for him, me and a couple guys to hunt together on a few different farmer's land, but there's always different guys trespassing.

Last year 2 guys pretended to have permission(fake sheet), even said seen our truck there many times, rest assured haven't seen them since we had a talk. This year while 4 of us were there bow hunting deer we hear noises, and a group of guys are there to hunt geese.. you got to be kidding me, they did apologize, said excuses(didn't think anyone hunts there, etc), and that they wouldn't be back.

I guess some people get too desperate for a spot to hunt, it can be tough to find but there are definitely a good amount of farmers out there who wouldn't mind someone hunting on their property. The problem is it can take many hours and days of searching, and then many people don't show any respect for the farmer, the land or the animals. And once their kicked out, many times they'll be inclined to not allow someone there again.
 
In manitoba we have the "problem predator program" where farmers can call in and a specially licenced, experanced trapper will go and help the farmer. This weeds out any random guy from showing up. Only those with lots of experance and who conduct themselves in a profeshinal manner get the licence and are contacted(as far as i know). Does ontario have a trappers association? - they would probably be the people to talk to about a functional program.

I think the face to face approach works best, also if someone lets you hunt on there land, offer to help out, build fences, chores, extra hand at harvest etc. You get a great spot and the farmer gets some free labor.
 
This info has been great.

All the input has been greatly appreciated, especially the mention of other programs.

Like I mentioned, this is simply about writing a proposal for a class, and I wanted to see if any of you fine folks might have been privy to information beyond what I found in my research.

Thanks, everyone!
 
The state of Michigan used to have a program called "Public hunting on Private Land", they may still have it. It is a published book which lists farms where hunting can take place. The DNR also issues game tags to the farmer for the hunters as a means of reducing the population of deer in an area. This land can be used for hunting anything is season. The farmer recieves a reduction in taxes from the state as compensation for participation. I have hunted farms where the farmer grew pop corn and the fields surounded a 125 acre tamarac swamp. I would love to have that farm knowing what I know now. Research this program it may have some helpful hints.

Dino
 
The issue is always trespassers. I've hunted for a few other farmers and we seem to always encouter trespassers while we're hunting. I have 2 farmers I hunt for right now and will spend next week rotating between their farms. Being allowed to hunt deer and turkey usually also means helping to take out a few coyotes, raccoons and skunks. It can also mean helping to fix fences and other work on the farm, which I don't mind as was born and raised on a farm. These are just closer than our family farm so more convenient to hunt. It has to be a mutually beneficial relationship, you have to respect the land, and permissions you have received. I also "pay" for the right to hunt their farms each year with gift certificates for their families. I have known these farmers for years, prior to asking for permission to hunt their farms. Both have had issues with trespassers and I've tried to help reduce those issues by approaching any trespasser I may find on the property, and convincing them it's not a good idea to trespass.
Farmers have no issues finding people to hunt their farms, as they can ask their neighbour of friend that either hunts or have respectful people hunting their farms. They don't really need a service to find people to hunt, it's the hunters having issues finding private property to hunt. In that case, it's knowing the right people, knocking on the right door or just being in the right place at the right time and getting the permission. Once you have a permission, that can turn into more farms, depending on your actions and results. Heck I can't go to my inlaws farm anymore without having to take a rifle or shotgun to try and take care of pest issues. Speaking of which I'm after beaver this weekend for my brother-in-law. Then get home in time to head out for deer on mon.
 
Although, if a program was to be successful, what would be aspects which would improve it's viability? What are features farmers or hunters would like to see?Enticing farmers would be fundamental to success, which I expected. Are there realistic methods which could entice farmers?
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I'm not sure what incentive features you could use short of paying them for access to hunt which is illegal. Basically it usually amounts to giving them small gifts of appreciation and being respectful of their private property.

And of course all it takes is one Knothead and nobody gets to hunt their land anymore.:mad:
 
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