Hunters and poachers are not brothers
- Thread starter CV32
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thepolinator
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Sudbury, ON
Seems like an ivory tower elite to me, and in some jurisdictions its very clear that conservation laws are no longer truly connected to science. That being said he makes some good points.
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thepolinator
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Sudbury, ON
They should be, but sadly they are not in many places.
Trimmer 905
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The video is nicely done,timely,poignant and right on target.
What in God's name are you complaining about? Did he use too many big words? Are there localized exceptions to his descriptions of game management laws and practices? Near as I can tell, everything he said was on the money and it's a distinction worth noting. Perhaps the game laws in some areas are being divorced from science BECAUSE the general public HAS conflated the two practices.
I, for one, don't like being confused with the poaching #######s who bring my hunting practices into disrepute. We need more people speaking out like this, in thoughtful, sensible ways.....not for your immediate benefit, not for mine but to educate the vast majority who don't hunt (or poach) so they don't force the passing of laws the disrupt our hunting because they have a rightly bad view of poaching.
thepolinator
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Sudbury, ON
I suppose you have never broken any law relating the harvest of game or any other law while harvesting game... if you have, then that makes YOU a poacher. Its real easy to sit in an arm chair up in your little ivory tower and make staw man arguments and false distinctions. At the end of the day, no matter how you feel about poaching most hunters have poached, either on purpose or by accident.
As for your question My original statement made it pretty clear. 1) he came off as an elitist and 2) many of our hunting regulations appear to be less interested in protecting and maintaining balance and sustainable populations.
As for your question My original statement made it pretty clear. 1) he came off as an elitist and 2) many of our hunting regulations appear to be less interested in protecting and maintaining balance and sustainable populations.
I recall shooting a deer several years ago at dusk and determined after the shot that I shot it four minutes after legal shooting. Apparently, all of four minutes can separate an honourable well prepared and ethical "hunter", from a disgusting thief.
I felt no shame then and don't now, but I try to be more careful.
Some good points made, but poorly presented IMO - the speaker came across as morally superior and stiff. A slogan such as: "I don't always preach, but when I do, it's about poaching" would have been fitting.
I have observed that people who go out of their way describing themselves as paragons of ethics are usually trying to compensate for something. These conversations never seem to end well.
I felt no shame then and don't now, but I try to be more careful.
Some good points made, but poorly presented IMO - the speaker came across as morally superior and stiff. A slogan such as: "I don't always preach, but when I do, it's about poaching" would have been fitting.
I have observed that people who go out of their way describing themselves as paragons of ethics are usually trying to compensate for something. These conversations never seem to end well.
Well, I haven't broken any that I'm aware of, unless you call speeding in my truck on the way to the marsh poaching. LOL
So I'm going to assume you are talking about the video when you mention little ivory tower and straw man arguments. Really seems like you are grasping at straws. Elitist? How is he elitist? What false distinctions. None of what you say rings true when I view the video. If I was to speculate I might guess his complaints hit a little close to home for you and therein lies your uncomfortableness with his message.
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So what? You're in favour of poaching? There's no difference between poaching and hunting?
Unfortunately many men I have seen comment on this website have I'm sure hunted legally, however, it's obvious that the outcomes of their actions have impoverished our wildlife populations much more for example than a guy who poaches a deer out of season, especially if that guy owns thousands of acres which provide habitat for hundreds of animals.
A pronounced example of perfectly legal behaviour that is incredibly detrimental is either ### draw pronghorn hunting in Saskatchewan. Everyone knows the pronghorn has a greatly reduced range of less than 5% in North America due to modern agriculture. At one time pronghorn numbered in the millions and were more common across the prairies than caribou in the tundra. But yet tags are available to shoot both females and males when most certainly we need these animals to grow the herds to larger numbers than the 1000-1500 animals estimated that live in the entire province (I don't believe it's even this many). Do we really want to stifle the growth of our herds for a few dozen to a couple hundred tags per year, which is what is available in the 2016 Saskatchewan draw. Or do we want to quadruple or quintuple the herds to say 5000-10,000 animals or more so more tags can be available when herd numbers can support it.
There are far too many examples of legal hunting practices that are pushing species ever more closer to extinction. I am fully expecting the pronghorn to be the next extinct species in canada unless serious steps are taken to expand their range and increase their populations.
So the result of legal hunting when compared to poaching can have the same result, or sometimes legal hunting can have even more deleterious effects on wildlife than illegal poaching.
A pronounced example of perfectly legal behaviour that is incredibly detrimental is either ### draw pronghorn hunting in Saskatchewan. Everyone knows the pronghorn has a greatly reduced range of less than 5% in North America due to modern agriculture. At one time pronghorn numbered in the millions and were more common across the prairies than caribou in the tundra. But yet tags are available to shoot both females and males when most certainly we need these animals to grow the herds to larger numbers than the 1000-1500 animals estimated that live in the entire province (I don't believe it's even this many). Do we really want to stifle the growth of our herds for a few dozen to a couple hundred tags per year, which is what is available in the 2016 Saskatchewan draw. Or do we want to quadruple or quintuple the herds to say 5000-10,000 animals or more so more tags can be available when herd numbers can support it.
There are far too many examples of legal hunting practices that are pushing species ever more closer to extinction. I am fully expecting the pronghorn to be the next extinct species in canada unless serious steps are taken to expand their range and increase their populations.
So the result of legal hunting when compared to poaching can have the same result, or sometimes legal hunting can have even more deleterious effects on wildlife than illegal poaching.
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Ian Mahoney writes a regular column for Sports Afield, and is an EXTREMELY well spoken man, whose concern is both preserving our hunting heritage, and preserving wildlife in an uncertain future.
He is particularly concerned with trying to change people's perceptions of hunting and hunters, so we HAVE hunting in the future.
Great video, thank you.
He is particularly concerned with trying to change people's perceptions of hunting and hunters, so we HAVE hunting in the future.
Great video, thank you.
The video's narrator does come across as a tad elitist to me as well. I found his manner a bit grating truth be told. Although his message is likely quite valid.
My folks ( and I ) generally live our lives in the country. We know when the local population has taken a hit. Bad winter and lots of fat coyotes, going to not be hunting for a few years.
I try to practice good stewardship when it comes to animals. Buy tags every year, fill them if there is adequate game...if it's sparse...nope.
I am sure the narrator has a good message, just perhaps his presentation irks certain people. Ever hear the words " You will never find a worse neighbor than Ducks Unlimited..."
I have heard major landowner say " I'd rather have a good poacher than a bad hunter..."
Hunters sometimes seem to have a sense of entitlement, and somewhat lax manners about gates and where they are supposed to drive. Leave a trail of candy wrappers and sandwich bags. Poachers...never even knew they were there...his words not mine.
I'm guessing this one will be drawn by rural / urban division. The fellow seems pretty Urban in his manner. Which irks some rural folk.
Not saying it's right...just an observation.
My folks ( and I ) generally live our lives in the country. We know when the local population has taken a hit. Bad winter and lots of fat coyotes, going to not be hunting for a few years.
I try to practice good stewardship when it comes to animals. Buy tags every year, fill them if there is adequate game...if it's sparse...nope.
I am sure the narrator has a good message, just perhaps his presentation irks certain people. Ever hear the words " You will never find a worse neighbor than Ducks Unlimited..."
I have heard major landowner say " I'd rather have a good poacher than a bad hunter..."
Hunters sometimes seem to have a sense of entitlement, and somewhat lax manners about gates and where they are supposed to drive. Leave a trail of candy wrappers and sandwich bags. Poachers...never even knew they were there...his words not mine.
I'm guessing this one will be drawn by rural / urban division. The fellow seems pretty Urban in his manner. Which irks some rural folk.
Not saying it's right...just an observation.
thepolinator
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Sudbury, ON
As far as I am aware I have never paoched. As for him being an elitist, many people have noted the same on this thread. He creates a false dichotomy where he claims that you are either a hunter or a poacher. The fact of the matter is there are so many shades of grey in this issue that you cannot reduce it to two ends of a spectrum. I also find his claim that poachers are thieves to be outdated and outlandish. Perhaps the type of poacher that pops deer from their truck on other epeoples land could be considered a thief but current thought and laws do not see poaching as theft and do not recognize game animals as property.The idea of wild animals belonging to the king is a throwback to ancient British times and is not part of Canada's history with regards to our own wildlife managment.
I believe that the either-### tags for pronghorn are due to the fact both have "horns." Although smaller for the females, the average hunter would not be able to tell the difference between the two. But if numbers are low, then cancel the hunt until the numbers become sustainable once again. Although their number deficiencies are more in line with changing prairie landscapes than with over hunting.
