Of course they were because they were shooting irons 100 years ago. Back then everyone either served in a war or their father did. Heck they used to teach marksmanship at school. My high school had a 100 yard range in the basement.
Hunters who do not practice their marksmanship
- Thread starter Tompullings
- Start date
Of course they were because they were shooting irons 100 years ago. Back then everyone either served in a war or their father did. Heck they used to teach marksmanship at school. My high school had a 100 yard range in the basement.
We had a guy at camp who went to load his rifle the morning of the hunt, and the action was rusted shut. ... turns out he hadn't even taken the rifle from the case since last year's hunt.
Big talker though... had all the great stories...
Big talker though... had all the great stories...
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
I'm not sure about you, but my gun safe doesn't magically screw around with my rifle after I put it away. I do my due diligence and ensure everything is torqued but I've never seen a rifle get off zero just sitting there. Sure if it take a fall or a knock I'd go zero it. By that same logic, do you shoot your rifle on paper when you get to you hunting location to make sure the bumpy gravel road there didn't knock your rifle off zero?
I like freedom. I lean right. We are born with all our rights. The gov't does not bestow or define rights, rather it takes them away and/or regulates them, and imposes taxes. I don't like the gov't telling me what to do, or suggesting it does not trust me.
That said, I think it could be a good thing for hunters, society, and wildlife populations, if hunting licenses required mandatory annual marksmanship training in order to renew a hunting license. Not "certification" pass or fail, but "training". I would object to the government taking away anyone's license because they did not achieve such and such a marksmanship score. It would simply be a mandatory skills training course to ensure that hunters who don't practice shooting, get some practice shooting.
All training and exams provide feedback to the student. If you scored poorly in this year's annual training, you would know that you need to practice more on your own. Win-Win-Win for the hunter, society and wildlife. And there could be some reality checks for hunters on distance and accuracy/precision for shot placement.
That would require more rifle and skeet/trap ranges across Canada. Good! That might, just might increase memberships in the shooting range-based sports to foster more firearms ownership and training of youth, ensuring our rights are preserved for generations to come. For the crown land gravel pit shooters, it might encourage training time to challenge the annual marksmanship training to improve on personal best score. Sports shooting is mostly about personal best and self improvement.
An annual mandatory marksmanship training requirement might foster more interest in competition shooting during the year, as people who don't shoot much find that its actually alot of fun, and directly applicable to their hunting skills.
Smallbore rimfire, or air rifle, is a great and inexpensive way (ammo-wise) to practice rifle fundamentals, for those complaining about factory centerfire ammo costs and availability. My parent's generation had smallbore rifle competition in high school, as has been mentioned. Shooting skills were considered important for young people. I would like to see a return of shooting skills and sports, and many more ranges built, as an important part of our culture. If it takes some mandatory annual upgrade training to encourage that, that could maybe be a good thing. Inconvenient to take an annual training course? Yes...., unless it becomes a normal part of of our culture in which case its a fun day to shoot and polish the skills.
I know: lots of questions. Who would run these annual courses, who pays, are there enough range facilities, would it cause some people to quit, etc. All good questions I do not have answers for. Just some ideas to toss around.
That said, I think it could be a good thing for hunters, society, and wildlife populations, if hunting licenses required mandatory annual marksmanship training in order to renew a hunting license. Not "certification" pass or fail, but "training". I would object to the government taking away anyone's license because they did not achieve such and such a marksmanship score. It would simply be a mandatory skills training course to ensure that hunters who don't practice shooting, get some practice shooting.
All training and exams provide feedback to the student. If you scored poorly in this year's annual training, you would know that you need to practice more on your own. Win-Win-Win for the hunter, society and wildlife. And there could be some reality checks for hunters on distance and accuracy/precision for shot placement.
That would require more rifle and skeet/trap ranges across Canada. Good! That might, just might increase memberships in the shooting range-based sports to foster more firearms ownership and training of youth, ensuring our rights are preserved for generations to come. For the crown land gravel pit shooters, it might encourage training time to challenge the annual marksmanship training to improve on personal best score. Sports shooting is mostly about personal best and self improvement.
An annual mandatory marksmanship training requirement might foster more interest in competition shooting during the year, as people who don't shoot much find that its actually alot of fun, and directly applicable to their hunting skills.
Smallbore rimfire, or air rifle, is a great and inexpensive way (ammo-wise) to practice rifle fundamentals, for those complaining about factory centerfire ammo costs and availability. My parent's generation had smallbore rifle competition in high school, as has been mentioned. Shooting skills were considered important for young people. I would like to see a return of shooting skills and sports, and many more ranges built, as an important part of our culture. If it takes some mandatory annual upgrade training to encourage that, that could maybe be a good thing. Inconvenient to take an annual training course? Yes...., unless it becomes a normal part of of our culture in which case its a fun day to shoot and polish the skills.
I know: lots of questions. Who would run these annual courses, who pays, are there enough range facilities, would it cause some people to quit, etc. All good questions I do not have answers for. Just some ideas to toss around.
I can remember a few years at my range there were lots of people sighting in and practicing with their rifles. even this fall not as many people are there as before. might be because the cost of ammo bullets powder etc . has people shooting much less.
Look, I started this thread thinking of the worst offenders out there in the woods with no clue where their projectiles are gonna fly. We’ve all met these types. Safe to say anyone who cares enough about shooting to join this forum is probably tolerably proficient with a rifle so you can rest easy knowing I’m not criticizing you. If you have a friend who’s been aiming using hopes and prayers rather than skill and a properly setup rifle maybe invite them to do a bit of practice with you. An hour or two would make a world of difference.
A lot of hunters aren't really into hunting. A long weekend without the ol' lady is reward 'nuff!
A lot of hunters aren't really into hunting. A long weekend without the ol' lady is reward 'nuff!
True enough. Throw in some beers and its a good weekend. - dan
- Location
- calgary alberta
Ever had a wood stocked rifle? Wood can swell or shrink due to changes in humidity, this can significantly alter where a rifles point of aim and point of impact will be. Plastic or fiberglass stocks do not have this concern. Most of my own rifles are in fiberglass stocks and I have yet to find one where the zero has changed, but my personal feeling is that a guy should still make the time to confirm zero before attempting to kill something. YMMV
I was rather shocked when I started casual air rifle 'hunter field target' shooting around 2015 at the Mission range's archery range meets. Most there were serious, a couple of the guys travelling to world cup meets. But a handful were air rifle owners, not really shooters. Whether open sights or more often with scopes, these guys had to be taught that scopes can be adjusted. Shooting at the knock-down steel plates in the shapes of various small game, they were aiming at the whole animal, thinking of their targets as being a foot tall plus or minus a bit for rabbits or squirrels. Even a tail hit made a few of them happy! Hitting the little hole to trip the mechanism and knock the target down, the hole being between 1cm and 4cm diameter depending on range, wasn't even on their radar, and they were vaguely amazed that some of us hit those consistently, not sure how it was being done.
Seeing the odd one gradually, over months, come to awareness that a scope can be dialed in, that a pellet could be 'placed' in a particular spot on a target not just 'hurled in that direction' was rewarding, as they became actual shooters, however limited their talents. The most alarming thing about all this was of course that some of them boasted of having taken down crows or squirrels with their airguns. How? Blind luck? Were these animals killed outright, or merely wounded sufficiently to stop them from running/flying?
I took down 3 starlings (horrible, murderous birds, an unfortunate introduced species) the other day at between 15 and 25 yards, two were headshots with low powered .177" and they dropped right there, the third a heart shot with a slightly more powerful .22" pellet at 25 yards and again he dropped right there. Did that stuff as a child, in Kelowna, where starlings are the bane of orchardists, and see no reason for any less perfection. If the shot isn't there, I don't take it. When it comes time for deer hunting with my Sig Cross I'll behave in the same honourable way, being certain of a quick death, or refusing to touch the trigger. I'll learn whatever is available on deer anatomy among various subspecies, elk, moose, all that, to be sure I don't make a mess of it. This is the way.
Seeing the odd one gradually, over months, come to awareness that a scope can be dialed in, that a pellet could be 'placed' in a particular spot on a target not just 'hurled in that direction' was rewarding, as they became actual shooters, however limited their talents. The most alarming thing about all this was of course that some of them boasted of having taken down crows or squirrels with their airguns. How? Blind luck? Were these animals killed outright, or merely wounded sufficiently to stop them from running/flying?
I took down 3 starlings (horrible, murderous birds, an unfortunate introduced species) the other day at between 15 and 25 yards, two were headshots with low powered .177" and they dropped right there, the third a heart shot with a slightly more powerful .22" pellet at 25 yards and again he dropped right there. Did that stuff as a child, in Kelowna, where starlings are the bane of orchardists, and see no reason for any less perfection. If the shot isn't there, I don't take it. When it comes time for deer hunting with my Sig Cross I'll behave in the same honourable way, being certain of a quick death, or refusing to touch the trigger. I'll learn whatever is available on deer anatomy among various subspecies, elk, moose, all that, to be sure I don't make a mess of it. This is the way.
Well, not sure if should even write anything on this subject. I'm in both camps. The practised shooter and the lazy one.
I'm bound to get criticized but what the heck, I can take it.
Until Covid occurred I would go to the range about twice a year. I'd buy a 3-visit pass and use it twice; once before spring bear and once before deer season unless I had a new-to-me rifle to try out. I liked to sight in most rifles at between 1.5 and 2-inches high at 100 metres so that depending on the rifle (7x57, 280 Remington or 300 WM) they were zeroed for 200 metres. What I always did before quitting for the day though, was make sure I knew where the bullets were hitting at 25, 50 and 75 metres, because that has been my usual distances at game for years.
But with Covid the range has been closed to non-members with day passes so I haven't been. The membership year starts in February so if I want to become a member I have to atteed an evening's orientation meeting before applying. But I am not an enthusiastic shooter. I have hearing damage and tinnitus already and don't like to aggravate it. Except for dialing in my hunting rifles and maybe trying different ammo if I have some, I don't want to shoot, so even at the senior's rate, I'm not likely to go shoot much more than before, even if I have a membership.
In 2020 I fired a few shots in the bush with my 280 and made sure it was dialed in. In 2021 I fired one shot with that rifle. That was at a deer and I hit where I was aiming. Put the gun away until this season. Thought I was good to go. What could possiblely have altered my POI?
Anyway, met up with 45ACPKING at camp and he said him and his brother had stopped on the way in to fire a few shots. I had a target with me so the next day I put it up just to see what the 280 was doing and DAMN! It was four inches low and an an inch to the left of the point of aim at 25 metres, so I dialed it in. I know if that load is bang on at 25, it is an inch high at 50. The range we see deer at in that place is anywhere from 5 to 50 yards just about wherever you look.
Good thing I was reminded to try a few shots just to make sure. Looks like the gun locker gremlins were playing with my scope dials again.
I'm bound to get criticized but what the heck, I can take it.
Until Covid occurred I would go to the range about twice a year. I'd buy a 3-visit pass and use it twice; once before spring bear and once before deer season unless I had a new-to-me rifle to try out. I liked to sight in most rifles at between 1.5 and 2-inches high at 100 metres so that depending on the rifle (7x57, 280 Remington or 300 WM) they were zeroed for 200 metres. What I always did before quitting for the day though, was make sure I knew where the bullets were hitting at 25, 50 and 75 metres, because that has been my usual distances at game for years.
But with Covid the range has been closed to non-members with day passes so I haven't been. The membership year starts in February so if I want to become a member I have to atteed an evening's orientation meeting before applying. But I am not an enthusiastic shooter. I have hearing damage and tinnitus already and don't like to aggravate it. Except for dialing in my hunting rifles and maybe trying different ammo if I have some, I don't want to shoot, so even at the senior's rate, I'm not likely to go shoot much more than before, even if I have a membership.
In 2020 I fired a few shots in the bush with my 280 and made sure it was dialed in. In 2021 I fired one shot with that rifle. That was at a deer and I hit where I was aiming. Put the gun away until this season. Thought I was good to go. What could possiblely have altered my POI?
Anyway, met up with 45ACPKING at camp and he said him and his brother had stopped on the way in to fire a few shots. I had a target with me so the next day I put it up just to see what the 280 was doing and DAMN! It was four inches low and an an inch to the left of the point of aim at 25 metres, so I dialed it in. I know if that load is bang on at 25, it is an inch high at 50. The range we see deer at in that place is anywhere from 5 to 50 yards just about wherever you look.
Good thing I was reminded to try a few shots just to make sure. Looks like the gun locker gremlins were playing with my scope dials again.
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That's a shame. Not been my experience, and between my early and late season rabbit and grouse hunting, and my own deer hunt wanderings in some pretty heavily hunted bush, both along pretty easy access, and deep in the hard going, I cannot recall finding anything more notable than a skinned whole bear dumped on the side of the main road (ie
bvious slob behavior) or various bags and piles of remains dumped by the lazy (dumped, as they still had tags on the legs, cleaning supplies, and were still in bags...slobs again.) I've met a few pretty 'clown' hunters along the way, but have not had the displeasure of finding wasted carcasses out in the bush.
Per a couple posters, I think that the sooper-dooper-long-range TV shows have not done a single positive thing for anyone except the makers of them. Most of the deer i have shot have been well within range to hit with a snowball, most of the rest, only a little further. My one moose, was madly in love with my black and grey VW Jetta, and was well under 100 yards too.
My opinion, your mileage may vary, but most of the guys that won't properly sight in, and don't maintain their skills in some way, don't have enough bushcraft in them to have much success either.
A friend had the opportunity given to him this fall to hunt mule deer at Ruggs Ranch in Oregon. Got his buck at 330 yards, the shortest of his group, the longest being around 600 if memory serves. His Browning is a hair over 0.5MOA reliably accurate, his new Leupold scope freshly dialed in two days before. He knew where the bullet would land after his 80 yard belly crawl stalk in open hilly grassland, where no close shots ever happen, as they do here on the coast for him between 50 and 150. A perfect group on paper was all he needed for confidence in his rifle and favourite round for it, Hornady ELD-X, in .30-06. exciting shot for sure, but also strangely boringly easy. That's an important difference comparing to pointing at a whole deer and thinking something like 'it's a rifle and it has a scope on it so it's accurate.'
That's a shame. Not been my experience, and between my early and late season rabbit and grouse hunting, and my own deer hunt wanderings in some pretty heavily hunted bush, both along pretty easy access, and deep in the hard going, I cannot recall finding anything more notable than a skinned whole bear dumped on the side of the main road (ie
I've met a few pretty 'clown' hunters along the way, but have not had the displeasure of finding wasted carcasses out in the bush.
Per a couple posters, I think that the sooper-dooper-long-range TV shows have not done a single positive thing for anyone except the makers of them. Most of the deer i have shot have been well within range to hit with a snowball, most of the rest, only a little further. My one moose, was madly in love with my black and grey VW Jetta, and was well under 100 yards too.
My opinion, your mileage may vary, but most of the guys that won't properly sight in, and don't maintain their skills in some way, don't have enough bushcraft in them to have much success either.
Last year my son was down in the creek brush and a truck pulled up on the Coulee top... guy got out and rattled of 3 quick rounds to see if he bust anything out.
What direction was the gun pointed...we're not sure....?
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
No, I've stayed clear of wood for the reasons you state in a hunting rifle. We all have our personal feelings to zeroing a rifle, some chose check zero beginning of every season, some after a bad fall or bump, others after they miss a shot! I think the point I took a stand against more than anything was the claim that "Shooting is a perishable skill and isn’t being a competent shooter part of being an ethical hunter?" I'd argue shooting as a skill isn't as perishable as maybe some think. Or at least my experience has shown otherwise. Also that because I don't practice doesn't mean I'm a competent shooter. But then again, I don't treat shooting animals like shooting steel plates or targets. I don't put myself in a position to have to take a shot at an animal that I've needed to practice. The only shots I take are the "slam dunks". That means alot of animals walk away, but what I lack in practice I make up for in self restraint and self awareness.
The range I go to never asks for a membership card, you just pay your $20 per rifle and stay as long as you like.
The main range has maybe a dozen stands that range from 40, 100, and 200 yards. If that one is full, you can take a short walk through the forest to another smaller range that only goes up to 100 yards, but enough to practice for sure. I think it's a good idea to at least shoot 3-5 shots before your hunt to make sure your scope/sights haven't been knocked off center. My last range outing my scope failed and I needed to go buy another one. I'm happy I missed the paper instead of injuring a deer and not collecting the meat. I also agree that shooting in a comfortable position at the range is a far cry from standing in the woods, but if you can't even hit your target when comfortable, then what are the chances of hitting it standing up freehand?
The main range has maybe a dozen stands that range from 40, 100, and 200 yards. If that one is full, you can take a short walk through the forest to another smaller range that only goes up to 100 yards, but enough to practice for sure. I think it's a good idea to at least shoot 3-5 shots before your hunt to make sure your scope/sights haven't been knocked off center. My last range outing my scope failed and I needed to go buy another one. I'm happy I missed the paper instead of injuring a deer and not collecting the meat. I also agree that shooting in a comfortable position at the range is a far cry from standing in the woods, but if you can't even hit your target when comfortable, then what are the chances of hitting it standing up freehand?
