Hunting big game wth Bullet Barn cast bullets (Brinell Hardness Level 25)?

Mr. Buttons

Mr. Buttons

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Friends, does anyone hunt with Bullet Barn cast bullets (Brinell Hardness Level 25)?

I've had a lot of success handloading for my M98 chambered in 9.3X57 using the Bullet Barn 280gr. cast bullet and SR 4759. I'm shooting it at about 1300FPS (18.5gr of powder) but want to bring it up to about 1700 FPS as long as accuracy remains superb.

Looking for advice on whether this type of bullet would be a decent choice for big game (Whitetail or Moose) or if the bullet is just too hard and wouldn't mushroom adequately.

I'm new to the idea of hunting with cast bullets, so just looking for advice on this approach.

thanks in advance.
 
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Dang! 17,000 FPS? You could shoot into space with that thing. Of course, it'll strip the rifling and lead the barrel like all get-out, so accuracy is out the window. You could never hit the moon with a decent group.
 
Mr. Buttons said:
:d LOL - obviously a typo I meant 1700 FPS not 17000 FPS
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I know that! But I couldn't resist! My first EVER "shoot into space" post. LOL. :D
Now, serious answer. That's not much speed for that hardness. You'll need plenty of flat on the nose.
ETA:
Sorry, just re-read title. Some reason I saw 65, not 25. Cancel my last. They should work fine at that speed, but a large flat should be used.
 
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Personally I don't prefer a cast bullet while hunting, you are at the mercy of the bullets diameter to do all the killing because they don't expand a significant amount unless they hit something hard then they can be unpredictable...

That said, i have ventilated a nice mulie doe with a .45cal 405gr from my 45/70 and it may have ran 20 yards before piling up... Zero meat loss, one clean wound entering the ribs, traveling thru her heart, exiting the other side.
 
Problem with that calibre is that you have really no options in terms of cast bullets; I think Bullet Barn is the only choice so the meplat will be what it is unless you go whole hog and get a custom mould to your own specs and cast your own. (Now there's a project for those long winter nights.) And at Brinnell 25 you'll likely get no expansion at all.

There was quite a flurry of activity on the 9,3x57 on Gunboards a few years ago, including some on using cast. This thread is still around although there haven't been any posts since 2011. One of the guys there, Daryl S, is a BC guy and seems to be pretty knowledgable. (I think he used to be on CGN as well.) He's into swaging down .375 bullets, both jacketed and cast, so if the BB slugs end up being too pointy, there might be a .375 you could swage down if you want to get into that.

I'm interested in your progress because I also have a Husky 9.3x57 and BB cast bullets but have never got around to working up loads for them.

:) Stuart
 
Brno8x57 said:
Check out the Reloading for Ruger No 1 in 303 Brit thread in this section. A fellow there posted about using paper patches on his cast bullets and is able to get much higher velocities as a result.
He took a nice elk using a cast and paper pathced bullet.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/511971-Loading-for-ruger-1-303-British/page15
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Yes, that was me. This was the article about patching a 9.3 that got me interested in paper patching.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?140130-9-3x74R-Gets-a-Good-Hog

Happy hunting!
 
Boolitcaster said:
Yes, that was me. This was the article about patching a 9.3 that got me interested in paper patching.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?140130-9-3x74R-Gets-a-Good-Hog

Happy hunting!
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Thanks for this- I hadn't seen that article. A paper-patched .358 bullet sounds like an interesting alternative. My Husky has a tight throat and I have to neck-turn the cases to get a BB cast bullet to chamber, although jacketed are OK. I really need to get back working on the 9.3... (At the moment my brain is full of plans for my .310 Cadet.) :)
 
I wouldn't worry to much about using a BB hard cast for hunting. My wife shoots a 30-30 in Silhouette matches using BB cast slugs at your target velocity of 1700 fps. Our observations are that the slugs will deform/mushroom some when hitting steel but when only hitting a clay bank they almost always bend the nose over a bit. They probably won't do a classic "mushroom" when hitting a game animal but if they bend or start to cartwheel from loss of stability I would have every confidence that they will get the job done.

I've shot a few deer with the 45-70 using mostly BB lead (at 1,100 to 13,00 fps). I haven't found that a mushroom effect is not all necessary with them. They enter and exit with the same body size as a .308 dia that has mushroomed. All the deer were shot broadside and I have yet to recover a .45 bullet from one, all thru & thru with 4 jumps the most any of them made after the hit.
 
I've taken several deer with cast using 45 and 35 cal slugs. The 45's are from a 450 Marlin and I've used both 405gr and 300gr Flat Nose bullets from RCBS molds. Excellent performance out to 75 metres, all 1 shot kills, no excess meat loss and full penetration every time. The 35 cal were shot out of a 35 Whelen and again, excellent performance out to 130+ metres. I made a mistake once and used a hard cast bullet, perhaps 21 BHN. The slug was a 250 gr Flat Nose from a LBT mold. I really don't recommend using anything over about 17BHN for taking large game. You can get away with it if you use a VERY large meplat but even then you'll have better results using soft cast. You should be able to temper your hard stuff and get the BHN down to a good soft metal. About 20 years ago I did some expansion tests with cast slugs using the 35's and they performed about the same as a Nosler Partition. The nose flattens out but the shank remains intact and maintains enough weight to really drive the bullet through. I've never recovered a cast slug from a deer but the wound channels have all been excellent. Best of luck.
 
Suther said:
I know this is an old post. But I feel like something is being overlooked here.

I can't say what the laws are in Ontario, but I know here in BC it is illegal to hunt with non-expanding bullets. Just some food for thought...
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Hard cast are not non-expanding, they just are fairly hard and expand very little if they don't hit bone, so they don't expand as much as most guys would like them to. Not the same as a purpose-built non-expanding solid at all.

1700 fps with even medium-hard cast should be pretty easily achievable; Why not? shoots my 9.3 cast bullets notably over 2000 fps and they are not even gas checked.

I've not issues hunting with hard cast myself; either use a large bore rifle for boiler shots and let the bullet diameter do it's job, or use a more moderate sized rifle and do a double-front-shoulder shot and then a coup-de-grace.
 
MadMarty said:
Just curious if taking a drill bit with a collar stop and making these cast a HP? Insane?
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There are actually factory made "hollow-pointing" tools a guy can buy to do this; the ones I've seen attach to a case trimmer. It's not totally insane.

The issue that comes up with hollow-pointing is that a hard alloy that has been hollow-pointed will often break off and/or shatter into small pieces on impact, rather than nicely mushroom, so it's questionable whether or not it is worth doing...
 
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Northman999, you get 2000fps without a check? That's very good. I'ver read a lot of guys use the hollow pointing method so it's a good idea to try it. For years, many guys used soaking wet phone books as a test medium. (I wonder how many guys wonder "what's a phone book?) Various people, with a lot of hunting experience, have said the phone books did a good job of replicating bullet performance on animal tissue. If you do try the hollow pointing it may be worth the effort to try this to see how well they hold up and what the expansion can be. Best of luck
 
In my experience hollow points don't really work worth crap over 1300-1400 fps in cast bullets. Softer alloys over expand too fast and the petals break off. With a hard cast bullet there is no expansion, or the petals just break off.

The best cast bullet design for hunting that I have found is a good wide flat meplat with a medium hardness range of BHN 18-20 in heat treated cast bullets. You want them tough but not brittle. IF I was going to make HP cast rifle bullets I wouldn't waste time with a hollow pointing device, I'd just a buy a hollow point mold. Although I think it's a waste of time based on my prior experience but maybe you will find something new.

If a person were interested in developing a reliably expanding HP cast bullet at rifle velocities they should read up on copper/lead alloys.
 
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