Hunting capable Semi auto. I'd like solid advice.

Lambo3

Lambo3

New member
EE Expired
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Western Canada
Hey everyone, long time no post.

I suppose this question could be posted in one or two other forum areas but here it is.

I've been researching and looking for a rifle - it started out I just wanted an affordable semi-auto rifle in a small(ish/er) lightweight form factor. Just to give an idea; I had come across the Ruger Mini line - the Ruger Mini-30. Now I know that is not a "hunting" gun, I know it's a "ranch rifle", and that you don't need a semi-auto for hunting etc...

I guess I'm looking for a hunting capable semi-auto. The more I research, the more questions I have, as usually happens with acquiring knowledge.

I know I want something: in the 300 caliber, semi-auto, size factor of say the Ruger mini (weight and size/length), non-restricted, reliable, accurate (2 MOA or under at reasonable ranges...I know the Ruger mini-thirty isn't generally looked at as capable of this), price: 1500 max.
I love that the Ruger mini-30 fires the 7.62x39 and the .308 (like the mini-14 fires the .223 and the 5.56), and it'll shoot pretty much anything (steel and crap ammo etc) and milsurp stuff -- I like all that.

-What are some suggestions that are comparable to that rifle?
-In Canada, what are the most common rounds?
-What are the most and least expensive caliber rounds in that caliber range (.308, 300WSM, 30-06) ... those are the three I'm really looking at mostly the first two.
-Is the 300WSM a "specialty" round? Extra pricey or something?
-What round would have the flattest trajectory... hunting out to 400-450 meters/yards with the flattest trajectory and still able to deliver the best game downing ability. (I've heard the 300WSM beats the .308, and also that the 30-06 beats the .308 in that category .. but kicks harder..?)

It appears as though, looking at Cabelas', that both .308 and 300WSM are anywhere from $1.50 to $3.00 a round :eek:

I'll leave it there for now cause this is kinda a sloppy post, my appologies. I have about 20 tabs open in my browser :)
I figured the hunters would have good insight on availability and cost of ammo and also what rifle according to my "wants"/needs might fight (if there is one...Canada *eye roll*)

Thanks a bunch for any help.
PS: synthetic stock..
 
Don't think you're going to find a replacement for the Mini 30 of the size, weight, accuracy, non-restricted and cost requirements you want.
One particular note: The Ruger Mini 30 is chambered in 7.62x39, which is NOT interchangeable with .308 WIN/7.62x51.
Rifle selection has compromises, you can't expect to use cheap FMJ ammo and expect to hunt at 400+ yards with any precision.
Cost of ammo has 308 WIN and 30-06 about the same and 300 WSM being significantly more about $20 a box vs $30+.
As for newly manufactured rifles, there aren't any in Canada I'm aware of that meet your criteria, which is why most hunters are using bolt rifles. The only other thing you might be interested in is one of the Norinco M305 (M1A copy) in 7.62x51, but they typically need tuning to work properly and mounting scopes is a pain.
 
My solid advice, after reading the original post, is to get yourself a bolt action in .308 and learn how to use it. Your post indicates serious inexperience, and a semi-auto is likely not your wisest choice at this point, and there are none of which I am aware that match your "criteria".
 
SKS.
Pros:
-Non-Restricted
-7.62x39mm
-Cheaper than anything
-You can do whatever you want to it stock wise
-Find them anywhere, including most of the site sponsors or even the EE
-Semi-Automatic
-Reliable
-Treat it like ####, still works
-Good first gun for anyone
-Maintenance is simple/minimal
-Good for leaving in the trunk, because who gives a damn if the stock get's dinged
-Fun to shoot out of hunting season

Cons:
-Not exactly sniper rifles
-Finding non-surplus/hunting specific ammo is more expensive


Don't know why you really mentioned .223, as it's more of a varmint catridge. Also, the Norc M305 is a decent option, I brought a deer down with it at about 150m this year.
 
Lambo3 said:
Hey everyone, long time no post.

I suppose this question could be posted in one or two other forum areas but here it is.

I've been researching and looking for a rifle - it started out I just wanted an affordable semi-auto rifle in a small(ish/er) lightweight form factor. Just to give an idea; I had come across the Ruger Mini line - the Ruger Mini-30. Now I know that is not a "hunting" gun, I know it's a "ranch rifle", and that you don't need a semi-auto for hunting etc...

I guess I'm looking for a hunting capable semi-auto. The more I research, the more questions I have, as usually happens with acquiring knowledge.

I know I want something: in the 300 caliber, semi-auto, size factor of say the Ruger mini (weight and size/length), non-restricted, reliable, accurate (2 MOA or under at reasonable ranges...I know the Ruger mini-thirty isn't generally looked at as capable of this), price: 1500 max.
I love that the Ruger mini-30 fires the 7.62x39 and the .308 (like the mini-14 fires the .223 and the 5.56), and it'll shoot pretty much anything (steel and crap ammo etc) and milsurp stuff -- I like all that.

-What are some suggestions that are comparable to that rifle?
-In Canada, what are the most common rounds?
-What are the most and least expensive caliber rounds in that caliber range (.308, 300WSM, 30-06) ... those are the three I'm really looking at mostly the first two.
-Is the 300WSM a "specialty" round? Extra pricey or something?
-What round would have the flattest trajectory... hunting out to 400-450 meters/yards with the flattest trajectory and still able to deliver the best game downing ability. (I've heard the 300WSM beats the .308, and also that the 30-06 beats the .308 in that category .. but kicks harder..?)

It appears as though, looking at Cabelas', that both .308 and 300WSM are anywhere from $1.50 to $3.00 a round :eek:

I'll leave it there for now cause this is kinda a sloppy post, my appologies. I have about 20 tabs open in my browser :)
I figured the hunters would have good insight on availability and cost of ammo and also what rifle according to my "wants"/needs might fight (if there is one...Canada *eye roll*)

Thanks a bunch for any help.
PS: synthetic stock..
Click to expand...
Browning Hog stalker or if you do not like the camo, FNAR Heavy (same rifle not re-branded as a Browning).

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?fid=002B&cid=031&tid=035

http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/autoloading-rifles/fnar-heavy/

If you want to get spendy, get a Bushmaster ACR and have Herron arms do a caliber conversion like I did

450 Bushmaster
2d9pnhl.jpg

2cmvejq.jpg

25hfn1t.jpg

mvg504.jpg
 
an 18.5" barrelled, scoped m14 type rifle will certainly do the job. is in a caliber that will knock down most if not all north American game. reasonably affordable and lots of aftermarket support. I've taken several mule deer and moose with such a rifle
hmmm a valmet hunter in .308
definitely give the nod to the BAR
or, maybe take a look at the new Modern Hunter if you want caliber choices and don't mind the wait to get one built.
 
In 7.62x39 with a budget cap of $1500, you have three choices: SKS, Mini-30, and VZ-58. Optics are going to be a pain, but consider that a lot of deer have been taken with iron sights (you will have to practice a lot!) The SVT-40 and Norinco M305 is also an option (7.62x54R and 308win) but are a lot larger to pack around.

If you expand your price range up to $3K you get a few more options. In 308win / 7.62x51: RA's XCR-M, Kel-Tek's RFB, Bushmaster's ACR, and entry level ATR Modern Hunter.

The notable exceptions to all of the above is Browning's BAR series which are chambered in an assortment of "hunting cartridges".

As an aside: When I started hunting/shooting centerfire I learned on a magnum cartridge, and I found that it wasn't a good fit even though I really wanted it to be. I couldn't shoot it accurately, it hurt after 20 rds, and it was very expensive. After a few years of buying, selling, and trading I've diverted from common wisdom and gone to the 7.62x39 as my "go to" chambering. Only in specific instances do I pick up my 9.3x62 but it's still a chambering that I can shoot all day with. So, try lots of different cartridges then buy the gun(s) you want.
 
Why not go with a benelli r1 argo.
Brand new are around 1300 canadian, mag fed, semi auto in any except 7.62×39.

He is what epps has in stock currently here
 
cathaldj said:
As an aside: When I started hunting/shooting centerfire I learned on a magnum cartridge, and I found that it wasn't a good fit even though I really wanted it to be. I couldn't shoot it accurately, it hurt after 20 rds, and it was very expensive. After a few years of buying, selling, and trading I've diverted from common wisdom and gone to the 7.62x39 as my "go to" chambering. Only in specific instances do I pick up my 9.3x62 but it's still a chambering that I can shoot all day with. So, try lots of different cartridges then buy the gun(s) you want.
Click to expand...

Three cheers for common sense! :cheers:

Daniel Boone's rifle is on display. If I remember correctly, it fired a .40 round lead ball with about the same muzzle energy as a .38 Special. The .476 Megamag Shoulderbuster is impressive on paper, but Bambi doesn't wear Kevlar and most hunting shots are taken under 200 yards. Neither Boone nor Crockett had such marvels of engineering, yet they still set the standard for hunting excellence.

Find a rifle that feels right when you shoulder it. Learn to shoot it. QED.
 
rral22 said:
My solid advice, after reading the original post, is to get yourself a bolt action in .308 and learn how to use it. Your post indicates serious inexperience, and a semi-auto is likely not your wisest choice at this point, and there are none of which I am aware that match your "criteria".
Click to expand...

I agree with this post. And here is why: in general, bolts vs semi's....bolts are more accurate, lighter, and more reliable. All criteria you listed.

I would get a .308 in (say) Tikka T3 Hunter with wood stock and learn to shoot it. It's light to carry, accurate and reliable.

It wont throw brass everywhere when you practice so you can get someone to reload for you with makes it cheaper to practice...

All I own is bolt guns.
 
Wow, these are the exact type of suggestions I was looking for. Thank you guys; now I have some more options too look at. I realized after I posted that maybe should have just called the damn thread "Ruger mini-30 alternatives please?" - haha.

I usually write pretty coherent, organized posts but I was tired, rushed and mentioned it was sloppy but you almost all got the jist, haha. If anyone wants to give any other input on or experience with any of the 'alternatives' mentioned please do.

rral22 said:
My solid advice, after reading the original post, is to get yourself a bolt action in .308 and learn how to use it. Your post indicates serious inexperience, and a semi-auto is likely not your wisest choice at this point, and there are none of which I am aware that match your "criteria".
Well..thanks. My post indicates serious unorganized thinking/writing for sure. I never claimed to be experienced, in fact I never do when I'm not; like in this case. But I'm not stupid, which is what I think you got from that sloppy OP. Here's what I got from yours:
You started off with a bolt action and learned how to use it first (which I agree is a good way to learn many things in general), therefore everyone else should do the same - especially "this idiot in the forum who probably calls a magazine a "clip" etc etc..
Am I close? haha.
Your "solid advice" (nice jab) comes off more as: "You want to buy a calculator? Buy an abacus first and learn how to use it". or "So you want advice on an axe to purchase for splitting wood? I suggest you buy a knife first and learn to baton with it".
I appreciate ya none-the-less though :) 'Cause I think what you meant was: "My solid advice is to get yourself a break barrel first, if you wanna learn to use a bolt action - and theennn get a semi-auto.. if what you want is a semi-auto". Or something to that effect. Fair enough.
haha.
Click to expand...

Omenator said:
...One particular note: The Ruger Mini 30 is chambered in 7.62x39, which is NOT interchangeable with .308 WIN/7.62x51.
Both the mini-14 and the mini-30 shoot their "metric" and "standard" (for lack of better terms) equivalents from everything I've looked into - which is one reason I liked them both. It's stamped .223 in brackets after 5.56 or visa versa, can't remember. It say's in the manual that you can and that you can even shoot the nato round in the rifle of the non-nato even if it's chambered for the non-nato. I called Ruger and they confirmed it (just a 'guy on the phone though'). 7.62 in the .308 and 5.56 in the .223 is ok according to Ruger, despite the pressure diffs etc from what they said. It's my understanding, only from reading briefly, that the pressures aren't even measure the same way between nato and the other cartridges..I could be wrong easily.
Rifle selection has compromises, you can't expect to use cheap FMJ ammo and expect to hunt at 400+ yards with any precision.
I don't expect to hunt at 400 yards with cheap ammo, but I do expect (want, haha) my rifle to at least shoot/cycle cheap ammo with reliability. There are rifles that do, right? SKS.
Cost of ammo has 308 WIN and 30-06 about the same and 300 WSM being significantly more about $20 a box vs $30+.
As for newly manufactured rifles, there aren't any in Canada I'm aware of that meet your criteria, which is why most hunters are using bolt rifles. The only other thing you might be interested in is one of the Norinco M305 (M1A copy) in 7.62x51, but they typically need tuning to work properly and mounting scopes is a pain.
Ok, thanks. The prices I've seen so far are about that and higher for .308, yep. A dollar a round up to much higher. I had M1A in mind until I saw the price I think.
Click to expand...

sharpsway said:
SKS.
Chit.. I originally was leaning toward one, while back. But It's pretty large and I got the impression somewhere that you "weren't allowed" to modify it's stock...like swap stock. Also don't like the stripper clips and methods of changing to a more modern feeding magazine with those duck bill mags looks ugly and a little annoying - not even sure if that's legal here or what.
Pros:
-Non-Restricted
-7.62x39mm
-Cheaper than anything
-You can do whatever you want to it stock wise
-Find them anywhere, including most of the site sponsors or even the EE
-Semi-Automatic
-Reliable
-Treat it like ####, still works
-Good first gun for anyone
-Maintenance is simple/minimal
-Good for leaving in the trunk, because who gives a damn if the stock get's dinged
-Fun to shoot out of hunting season

Cons:
-Not exactly sniper rifles
-Finding non-surplus/hunting specific ammo is more expensive
Do you mean: in general, it's hard to find 7.62x39 that is not surplus in Canada (and abroad). That would make sense, haha

Don't know why you really mentioned .223, as it's more of a varmint catridge. Also, the Norc M305 is a decent option, I brought a deer down with it at about 150m this year.
I think I said why I mentioned .223 above: because I was talking about the Ruger mini-30 and mini-14 which both can shoot their NATO and "non-NATO" cartridges... I know .223 is a 'varmint' cartridge - it's .223 caliber on a larger cartridge than a .22LR. Though people hunt deer and smaller with their AR's/other .223's, haha, I'm not looking to.
Click to expand...


burnt_servo said:
this
Thank you both.
Click to expand...

Galt said:
Benelli R1?
I saw it, wasn't on my radar though 'cause I know nothing about it..yet. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Brian46 said:
Browning Hog stalker or if you do not like the camo, FNAR Heavy (same rifle not re-branded as a Browning)

...If you want to get spendy, get a Bushmaster ACR and have Herron arms do a caliber conversion like I did
Nice, ok. Thanks for the pics and links too. I haven't seen an FNAR, or the "Hog Stalker" yet. Cool. I don't "want" to get spendy, no. haha.
Click to expand...

45ACPKING said:
an 18.5" barrelled, scoped m14 type rifle will certainly do the job. is in a caliber that will knock down most if not all north American game. reasonably affordable and lots of aftermarket support. I've taken several mule deer and moose with such a rifle
hmmm a valmet hunter in .308
definitely give the nod to the BAR
or, maybe take a look at the new Modern Hunter if you want caliber choices and don't mind the wait to get one built.
Thanks for the suggestions. Some of those I'm not familiar with at all; the valmet hunter or modern hunter. Good stuff, thanks.
Click to expand...

cathaldj said:
In 7.62x39 with a budget cap of $1500, you have three choices: SKS, Mini-30, and VZ-58. Optics are going to be a pain, but consider that a lot of deer have been taken with iron sights (you will have to practice a lot!) The SVT-40 and Norinco M305 is also an option (7.62x54R and 308win) but are a lot larger to pack around.
Hmm, ok - thanks. I'd have to do something about the size of the SKS and isn't the VZ-58 a little large too. I guess you say as much in that they are "larger to pack around". If I can swap to a better stock, ok, but if they're to heavy to start with..meh.
If you expand your price range up to $3K you get a few more options. In 308win / 7.62x51: RA's XCR-M, Kel-Tek's RFB, Bushmaster's ACR, and entry level ATR Modern Hunter.
Couldn't go that high in price ranges. I've looked at the XCR's but wow, expensive; don't think that one's worth it. What do you mean on the optics problem? Mounting issues? Sit too high off the rifle or rail options etc? (haha, I like good iron sights, even just aesthetically)

The notable exceptions to all of the above is Browning's BAR series which are chambered in an assortment of "hunting cartridges".
I will check out the BAR. I haven't checked much anything browning because I know nothing about'em.

As an aside: When I started hunting/shooting centerfire I learned on a magnum cartridge, and I found that it wasn't a good fit even though I really wanted it to be. I couldn't shoot it accurately, it hurt after 20 rds, and it was very expensive. After a few years of buying, selling, and trading I've diverted from common wisdom and gone to the 7.62x39 as my "go to" chambering. Only in specific instances do I pick up my 9.3x62 but it's still a chambering that I can shoot all day with. So, try lots of different cartridges then buy the gun(s) you want.
That is solid advice I really like. "..even though I really wanted it to be." I hear ya man, haha, I'm trying not to do that but it's hard :p. Thank you!
Click to expand...

Aries- said:
Why not go with a benelli r1 argo.
Brand new are around 1300 canadian, mag fed, semi auto in any except 7.62×39.

He is what epps has in stock currently here
Again thanks for the R1 heads up, I like some of their shotguns; I'd love a supernova :) But I don't know much about their rifles at all. I'll look closer at that R1 because it came up in my "searching" but I kinda ignored it. Great.
Click to expand...

the spank said:
You arent taking big game at 400-450m with an SKS in 7.62x39! Better subtract about 300 -350m from that!
..but .308 can, right? As the Ruger mini-30 shoots .308. I understand that NATO rounds are basically meant to "injure human beings" by going through and essentially getting them outta the action. I know they're not a hunting round meant to "drop a 300lb animal dead in a shot". Again that's just my understanding and I appreciate correction where wrong :)
I won't be taking anything at those ranges until I get a lot of practice and start by learning how to get in close, but I'd prefer if my rifle was capable, know what I mean? Thanks spank :)
Click to expand...

ATOM said:
Three cheers for common sense! :cheers:

Daniel Boone's rifle is on display. If I remember correctly, it fired a .40 round lead ball with about the same muzzle energy as a .38 Special. The .476 Megamag Shoulderbuster is impressive on paper, but Bambi doesn't wear Kevlar and most hunting shots are taken under 200 yards. Neither Boone nor Crockett had such marvels of engineering, yet they still set the standard for hunting excellence.

Find a rifle that feels right when you shoulder it. Learn to shoot it. QED.
"Common sense"; one of the most misused and over used terms in yeeaars. But you both sure aren't wrong!
"If I accidentally get a cut on something sharp, it will probably hurt" - that is common sense. "Don't touch things you know are hot cause you'll get burn" - that is common sense.
Just teasin', in case you didn't know. I agree - appreciate the advice.
I don't have the opportunity/luxury to try a bunch of rifles but obviously that would be optimal... :)
Click to expand...
 
In a hunting rifle, as compared to a range/target toy....your choices are the Remington semi(740/7400) and the Browning Bar. I have heard that the remingtons are both jammers and not accurate. That leaves you with the Browning Bar. I prefer the Safari style Bar as they are all metal over the Stalker line which apparently has a bunch of polymer.

Have owned three Safari's and still have the 338 Win.

Any of those calibers are fine, but the 300 WSM will be 25-50% more money for ammo. The Bar's are not light, and coupled with being semi's the recoil will be light.

Bars in 30-06 are common on the EE and sell usually for 600-800 range. Magnum calibers carry a premium. Bar in 308 or smaller calibers are not common in the EE.
 
Bigbubba said:
I agree with this post. And here is why: in general, bolts vs semi's....bolts are more accurate, lighter, and more reliable. All criteria you listed.

I would get a .308 in (say) Tikka T3 Hunter with wood stock and learn to shoot it. It's light to carry, accurate and reliable.

It wont throw brass everywhere when you practice so you can get someone to reload for you with makes it cheaper to practice...


All I own is bolt guns.
Click to expand...

I was looking at the Tikka T3 actually, but again - I want a semi-auto.
I know that bolts are in general very accurate, simple (working/strip), reliable platforms.

I have never heard that bolts are lighter though. They have less working parts so that would make sense. I remember hearing the opposite, haha. But just checking Tikka site it says the T3 hunter is ~3.1kg or ~6.8lbs, and the T3 lite is ~2.8kg or ~6.1lbs (just for two examples). The Ruger mini-thirty (for example) weighs 6.75 lbs... I think that's pretty light :) and also pretty close to those two Tikka examples. Lemme know what ya think.

I can't base my purchase of if someone can maybe reload for me though. I don't know why you would suggest wood stock, other than you happen to like wood stocks. Especially when I said "synthetic stock" is what I want.
"All you own is bolt guns" - to each their own. I like them too, that is I like their capabilities, aesthetics even, and simplicity. It's just...I'm looking for a semi-auto. lol.

Thanks BB

edit: btw I looove the look of beautiful, well done wooden stocks - especially those naturally patterned (and otherwise?) wood stock rifle. I adore their looks. And I really like thumbhole stocks look too. But I'm primarily a function over for guy. In the market for a synthetic right now :)
That dark wood T3 is real nice; with the kinda broken up checkering on the 'grip' (nomenclature?).. now you're getting me confused. Haha.
 
..but .308 can, right? As the Ruger mini-30 shoots .308. I understand that NATO rounds are basically meant to "injure human beings" by going through and essentially getting them outta the action. I know they're not a hunting round meant to "drop a 300lb animal dead in a shot". Again that's just my understanding and I appreciate correction where wrong
I won't be taking anything at those ranges until I get a lot of practice and start by learning how to get in close, but I'd prefer if my rifle was capable, know what I mean?
Click to expand...

The 7.62x39 chambering of the Ruger mini-30 is, in fact. .308 in caliber, but it is NOT the .308 NATO cartridge ( which is actually 7.62x51 or the .308 Win). If you re-read this thread, you have already been told that by others, and apparently, didn't even read it. You are dangerously confused about this question.

You started off with a bolt action and learned how to use it first (which I agree is a good way to learn many things in general), therefore everyone else should do the same - especially "this idiot in the forum who probably calls a magazine a "clip" etc etc..
Am I close? haha.
Click to expand...

You are NOT close, and the fact you think you might be is, in fact, beginning to make you actually look like "this idiot in the forum". If you don't want to take my advice, fine. But you obviously need a lot more advice than just the names of some semi-auto rifles that actually do NOT match your criteria in your OP very well at all. But you can read it all any way your mind is already made up, and, I suspect, no one will be able to change that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom