hunting capacity

cote_b said:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm



The LAR-15 Pistol mag, which can hold 10 rounds of .223 CAN be legally used in a AR-15. PERIOD. Whether you can hunt with 10 rounds, well that might depend on province, but there is NO debate on the legality of using/owning LAR-15 mags. Its legal.

Sobo4303, get your facts straight before arguing with people about this.
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"The LAR-15 Pistol mag, which can hold 10 rounds of .223 CAN be legally used in a firearm designed to use AR-15 magazines"

Fixed that for you, an important point as an Armalite AR-15 is restricted and can't be used for hunting, whereas the Benelli MR1, Remington 7615,etc. are non restricted and can be used for hunting even though they use AR type magazines.

To the OP:
I would call the MNR to be sure, but I'd have to say you're good to go as you're legal under federal regulations. I can't find anything in the Ontario hunting regulations limiting centerfire rifle magazine capacity.

http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/FW/Publication/MNR_E001275P.html
 
sobo4303 said:
Excuse me?!? Useless drivel? The OP asked a very valid question and it is absolutely unbelievable as to how ignorant some people can be. You do not have to be a fukk'n lawyer to understand that the Federal Law, regardless of which Provincial jurisdiction the OP resides, specifically states that a semi-automatic rifle can have a maximum capacity of 5. PERIOD. Useless drivel my ass! You wanna use more, go for it. You wanna use the excuse that because the mag is sold in Canada, that it must be legal, then do whatever you need to. Don't agree with my opinion, it doesn't matter, because in the end, you're the one who's gonna pay, not me.

For the OP, I draw your attention to:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm

Pay close attention to Number 2, 3 and 4. Provincial Law does not supercede Federal Law. And, now that you know, you can make your own decision.
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what the h3ll are you talking about , provincial law doesn't supercede federal law ????

there are 2 completely different things being talked about here ......

first off you have the maxiumum magazine capacity for a semi auto ......

then you there is the maxium magazine capacity , regardless of rifle type , for use while actually hunting ( yes some provinces limit mag capacity for hunting . )

now speaking specificly of hunting , THERE IS NO FEDERAL LAW limiting mag capacities while hunting .

this is a provincial thing only .
( the following numbers are exagerated ) if the federal firearms act allows a 30 round magazine in your rifle , but the provincial hunting law limits the capacity to 3 , while you are using that rifle for hunting , the magazine capacity must be limited to 3 , once you are no longer hunting it can go back to 30 . ( this is assuming that your province of choice has placed magazine capacity limits in place during hunting ) .

now back to the federal magazine limits ...
the magazine capacity limits follow the magazine and what it is designed to fit AND cartridge fired .
in other words if the mag was desgined to fit a semi auto 30-06 rifle , it can never legally hold more than 5 rounds of 30-06
same with a pistol magazine , but the limit is 10 rounds .

if a pistol mag fits into a rifle without modification , it is still legal at 10 rounds of the cartridge it was desgined for.

if a rifle mag fits into a pistol it still can never hold more than 5 rounds rounds of the cartridge it was desgined for .

even the rcmp have sent a letter out recognising this .

as silly as our laws our this is what is legal right now .
 
bearkilr said:
https://shopquestar.com/shopping65/shopcontent.asp?type=Mag Ruling

E-mail Received Monday March 12, 2007 from ###x ###xx - (copied DFAIT & CFC by ### ###xx)
Good day Mark:

Attached you will find a document sent by this office to DEFAIT Canada & the Firearms Registry with respect to the LAR-15 PISTOL Magazine issue. The finding is in favour of your product.

x.x. ######x (###x) ###xx
Section Head
Firearms Reference Table Section
Senior Firearms Technologist
Firearms Support Services Branch
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
P.O. Box 8885,
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
K1G 3M8
###-###-###x

Good afternoon everyone:

Attached you will find an MS or Microsoft WORD document which will be of interest.

This document is the final chapter in the saga of a cartridge magazine specific to the Rock River Arms LAR-15 Pistol, which is a 'handgun, commonly available in Canada', which may have a capacity of (not more than) ten shots.

1. The Rock River Arms, LAR-15 Pistol qualifies as a "handgun, commonly available in Canada".

2. The cartridge magazine for this handgun as manufactured by C Products LLC has been deemed to be acceptable as a "handgun magazine" as it meets the following criterion:

a) It is designed and manufactured for use in a handgun commonly available in Canada and has a capacity of not more than ten cartridges of the kind or type for which the magazine was designed.

b) The cartridge magazine for this handgun as manufactured by C Products LLC is not an adaption of a magazine designed and manufactured for use in a semi-automatic rifle.

3. The design that has been found acceptable as a handgun magazine is held by the RCMP, Firearms Support Services, Firearms Reference Table Section as a "pattern". This particular design and NO other design is approved for use as a "handgun magazine for a handgun commonly available in Canada".

4. As an assist to identification, the cartridge magazines which have been deemed acceptable as a "a magazine for use in a handgun commonly available in Canada", bear the following identification markings on the body or magazine case, applied at the time of manufacture by the manufacturer:

RRA MODEL LAR-15 PISTOL MAGAZINE
223 REM/5.56 MM NATO - 10 ROUND CAPACITY

NOTE: - No other ten shot capacity magazines are deemed acceptable as "a magazine for use in a handgun commonly available in Canada" as of 2007-03-12.
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Ok, the printout you provided emphatically states that the magazine can be used in the LAR-15 Pistol. Item 2(b) goes on to further unequivocally state that it is not an adaptation for of the mag used in the semi-auto rifle. The RCMP accepts is an acceptable handgun magazine. We are not allowed in Canada to hunt with handguns. Will this mag fit in a rifle - you folks say it can. The law says that if you put more than 5 in it while in the semi-auto rifle, then it's illegal. That's it. To clarify the comments, if the OP wants to use, break a leg, just don't use more than 5 rounds, as stupid as it sounds.

The excerpt from the Bullentin I copied clearly states this fact.

2. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the limit of five cartridges.
 
^^^ Read the entire page on Questar's website please.

In a nutshell, the LAR15 10 rd magazine was DESIGNED for use in a pistol ONLY, it just happens to fit in rifles as well. That's why ONLY the LAR15 magazines can be used, no others. This is also the reason that only the magazines identified clearly as being for the RRA LAR15 PISTOL qualify.
 
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bearkilr said:
To the OP:
I would call the MNR to be sure, but I'd have to say you're good to go as you're legal federally. I can't find anything in the Ontario hunting regulations limiting centerfire magazine capacity.
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That's what I think as well. There is nothing in the provincial regs that forbids it and, they allude to any magazine that is federally legal as being okay for hunting applications. But, I too think that if there is any doubt whatsoever, a quick call to the CO is worth it's weight in gold. But, I think the OP is good to go.
 
sobo4303 said:
Ok, the printout you provided emphatically states that the magazine can be used in the LAR-15 Pistol. Item 2(b) goes on to further unequivocally state that it is not an adaptation for of the mag used in the semi-auto rifle. The RCMP accepts is an acceptable handgun magazine. We are not allowed in Canada to hunt with handguns. Will this mag fit in a rifle - you folks say it can. The law says that if you put more than 5 in it while in the semi-auto rifle, then it's illegal. That's it. To clarify the comments, if the OP wants to use, break a leg, just don't use more than 5 rounds, as stupid as it sounds.

The excerpt from the Bullentin I copied clearly states this fact.

2. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the limit of five cartridges.
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Sorry, but your interpretation is mistaken.
 
bearkilr said:
"The LAR-15 Pistol mag, which can hold 10 rounds of .223 CAN be legally used in a firearm designed to use AR-15 magazines"

Fixed that for you, an important point as an Armalite AR-15 is restricted and can't be used for hunting, whereas the Benelli MR1, Remington 7615,etc. are non restricted and can be used for hunting even though they use AR type magazines.
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Right that is correct, I omitted that by mistake. Any firearm that was designed to take an Ar-15 magazine can be legally used with a 10 round LAR mag. ( Ar-15, Benelli MR1, Tavor, XCR, Rem 7615 etc)
 
sobo4303 said:
Ok, the printout you provided emphatically states that the magazine can be used in the LAR-15 Pistol. Item 2(b) goes on to further unequivocally state that it is not an adaptation for of the mag used in the semi-auto rifle. The RCMP accepts is an acceptable handgun magazine. We are not allowed in Canada to hunt with handguns. Will this mag fit in a rifle - you folks say it can. The law says that if you put more than 5 in it while in the semi-auto rifle, then it's illegal. That's it. To clarify the comments, if the OP wants to use, break a leg, just don't use more than 5 rounds, as stupid as it sounds.

The excerpt from the Bullentin I copied clearly states this fact.

2. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the limit of five cartridges.
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From: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/b...323-72-eng.htm

4. Magazines designed for one firearm but used in a different firearm

The maximum permitted capacity of a magazine is determined by the kind of firearm it is designed or manufactured for use in and not the kind of firearm it might actually be used in. As a consequence, the maximum permitted capacity remains the same regardless of which firearm it might be used in

Example:
The Marlin model 45 (Camp Carbine) rifle chambered for 45 Auto caliber uses magazines designed and manufactured for the Colt 1911 handgun, therefore the seven round and eight round capacities are permitted. A similar example is the 10 round capacity magazine for the Rock River Arms LAR-15 pistol, regardless of the kind of firearm it is actually used in.
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Right there, it specifically mentions the LAR-15 mag as being able to keep a 10 round capacity while being used in other firearms.
 
sobo4303 said:
Ok, the printout you provided emphatically states that the magazine can be used in the LAR-15 Pistol. Item 2(b) goes on to further unequivocally state that it is not an adaptation for of the mag used in the semi-auto rifle. The RCMP accepts is an acceptable handgun magazine. We are not allowed in Canada to hunt with handguns. Will this mag fit in a rifle - you folks say it can. The law says that if you put more than 5 in it while in the semi-auto rifle, then it's illegal. That's it. To clarify the comments, if the OP wants to use, break a leg, just don't use more than 5 rounds, as stupid as it sounds.

The excerpt from the Bullentin I copied clearly states this fact.

2. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the limit of five cartridges.
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No, the Questar printout states that the magazine was DESIGNED for a pistol, NOT that it can ONLY be used in a pistol. Big difference. By them stating that it was DESIGNED only for a pistol, does not mean that it falls under part 2 of the RCMP mag cap bulletin. It falls under part 4 of the RCMP bulletin, wherein it was designed for a pistol, but can coincidentally fit in a rifle, because there is NO law in Canada that states you can't use a mag DESIGNED for use in one firearm in another. Part 2 of the RCMP mag cap bulletin was in regards to the S&W M&P 15-22 rifle magazines having to be pinned to the more restrictive capacity of the two types that it is considered to be (in that case, 10 rounds like a pistol mag), because the manufacturer stated those mags were made for BOTH the pistol AND rifle versions.

As another example, Part 2 of the RCMP bulletin also concerns the Ruger BX-25 mags, which Ruger advertises as being made for both the 10/22 rifle and Charger pistol, so they must be limited to the lesser capacity of the two (in that case, 10 rounds for a pistol mag). Meanwhile, the Butler Creek 25 rounders have no capacity limit (being rimfire rifle mags) because the company only advertises them as being made for the 10/22 rifle, even though it is legal to use them unpinned in a Ruger Charger as per part 4 of the RCMP bulletin.
 
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I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone so wrong, argue their point so much. :p Pistol mags are legal to use in rifles. Some provinces do not allow more than 5 rounds in a rifle for hunting however Ontario is not one of those. You may hunt with 10 round capacity pistol magazines in a rifle as they are specifically exempted persuant to the Firearms Act. If you're going to argue, it's important to know your facts, including that your 30 round unpinned mag is a prohibited device and jeopardizes your firearms license. ;)
 
OMG!!! now I'm really confused....I think what I'll take from all this, is I can legally use the LAR 15 10 round mag in my vz58 rifle for plinkin but if I go hunt some coyotes I shoud switch to a pinned 5 round AR mag of my choosing just to be safe from any game warden I may run into.

THX for all your info
 
I have only hunted in the western provinces, so I don't know about ontario provincial hunting rules.

I have never seen a center-fire rifle magazine capacity limit (pump,lever,bolt,semi) for hunting in any regs. 30-30's, 303's, M1's all hold more than five and people legally hunt with them all the time. I've even seen/know people that hunt legally with LAR mags.

I have only seen provincial limits for hunting in regards to shotguns, and they are all different. Some say 2 max in the magazine, some say 3 total (there's is a difference).

I'd get a copy of the regs and read through them to be sure of your province.
 
Just looked it up in your regs. Couldn't cut # paste, sorry?

Page 23, top left, says your good to go with the LARs.

Shotguns must be limited to two in the mag, one in the chamber, 3 total. No floating there.
 
Thanks, alot of debate for a simple question, from the looks of these posts people are not even sure its legal from me to use that mag in my rifle because it's 10 round instead of 5
 
sobo4303 said:
... The law says that if you put more than 5 in it while in the semi-auto rifle, then it's illegal. ...
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The law does not say that if you put more than five in it while in the semi-auto rifle, then it's illegal. The law specifies that magazines made for semi-auto centrefire rifles must not have a capacity greater than five rounds. It doesn't matter whether they are in the semi-auto rifle or not, and if they are not made for a semi-auto rifle, they aren't subject to that capacity restriction whether they are in a semi-auto rifle or not. The way the law is written simply doesn't do what you are saying.

It is a common misunderstanding because it is common when teaching the firearms course to try to make things clear by translating the specific and arcane language of legal regulations to plain speaking and to introduce this error in the attempt. I was taught this error when I took the course, and taught the same error when I took the firearms safety course instructor's course. The RCMP has clarified the issue in writing: if the magazine is specified by the maker for handguns only, it is subject to handgun magazine limits, regardless of what you use it in or even if you don't use it in anything. If the magazine is specified by the maker for a centrefire semi-auto long guns it is subject to handgun magazine limits, regardless of what you use it in or even if you don't use it in anything (e.g. that thirty round magazine you say a firearms instructor told you was legal - we all make mistakes.) And if it is specified for use in both handguns and long guns the more restrictive restriction applies.

That last point illustrates a point to remember when you think about federal law superceding provincial. The federal law doesn't say you can have five rounds in your semi-auto centrefire long gun magazine. It says you can't have more than five. So if a lower level of authority than the feds makes a regulation saying e.g. you can't have more than three rounds in that gun they aren't contradicting the federal regulation because "not more than three" is "not more than five."
 
sobo4303 said:
Ok, the printout you provided emphatically states that the magazine can be used in the LAR-15 Pistol. Item 2(b) goes on to further unequivocally state that it is not an adaptation for of the mag used in the semi-auto rifle. The RCMP accepts is an acceptable handgun magazine. We are not allowed in Canada to hunt with handguns. Will this mag fit in a rifle - you folks say it can. The law says that if you put more than 5 in it while in the semi-auto rifle, then it's illegal. That's it. To clarify the comments, if the OP wants to use, break a leg, just don't use more than 5 rounds, as stupid as it sounds.

The excerpt from the Bullentin I copied clearly states this fact.

2. Magazines designed or manufactured for both centrefire calibre rifles and handguns

Magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic rifle are limited to five cartridges. However, magazines designed to contain centrefire cartridges and designed or manufactured for use in a semiautomatic handgun are limited to 10 cartridges. Magazines designed or manufactured for use in both semiautomatic rifles and semiautomatic handguns are subject to the limit of five cartridges.
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OMG!

You can obviously read as you keep replying, but you clearly still dont comprehend what you are reading.


the MAGS are what determines the capacity, not the firearm.

Semi auto rifle mag = 5 rounds
pistol mag = 10 rounds

If a pistol mag fits in a rifle its all good. There are many NR rifles that fire pistol calibers and pistols that fire CF rifle cartridges.

YES!! I am allowed to put salt in my pepper shaker!!!
 
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