Hunting Deer With A .223?

Fundy1 said:
.223 is the smallest you can use for anything that is bobcat sized and up in New Brunswick.
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Are you sure about that? Most people was probably confuse your statement as saying .223 Remington is the minimum cartridge. Or did you really mean to say .22 centrefire is the smallest legal deer rifle in NB? Because I've seen in the past .22 Hornet rifles for sale in Ormocto touted as legal deer rifles in that province.
 
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i notice that nobody from the island has posted yet. once you hunt on the west side of the island you will soon realize what mumbles is talking about. a .223 is good for deer here. heck alot of the natives are shooting them with pellet guns. not killing them but you know what i mean. they're dads are teaching them to hunt so they go shoot what they choose and end up having deer run off with a couple lead pellets in their hide. disturbing i know, and it's the reason i don't agree with the way alot of natives hunt (i will not argue about this, i have my opinion and i'm not afraid to make myself look like an idiot in order to make people look like supreme idiots so fire away if you dare :cool:) i have seen it way to many times to not have an opinion on it. people are making clean shots with .22lr's (even though it ain't legal) so there is no reason it can't be done with a .223. i'm sure even a pellet gun shot would do it if a person was smart enough to place it properly.
 
westcoaster90 said:
i notice that nobody from the island has posted yet. once you hunt on the west side of the island you will soon realize what mumbles is talking about. a .223 is good for deer here. heck alot of the natives are shooting them with pellet guns. not killing them but you know what i mean. they're dads are teaching them to hunt so they go shoot what they choose and end up having deer run off with a couple lead pellets in their hide. disturbing i know, and it's the reason i don't agree with the way alot of natives hunt (i will not argue about this, i have my opinion and i'm not afraid to make myself look like an idiot in order to make people look like supreme idiots so fire away if you dare :cool:) i have seen it way to many times to not have an opinion on it. people are making clean shots with .22lr's (even though it ain't legal) so there is no reason it can't be done with a .223. i'm sure even a pellet gun shot would do it if a person was smart enough to place it properly.
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I was going to tell you that I am from the island and I posted already..........but then after reading your post I decided it might be best if I wasn't grouped in or associated to you and your ways of thinking..........
 
From my research on the net, Their are a lot of older guys who have had a shoulder injury in the past, and the injury is starting to catch up with them so they hunt deer with a .223 because of the reduced recoil. All of them claim the .223 works great with in 100 meters even against the larger deer. You can't even see past 100 meters around here anyways.

636andy636 said:
Why not a 243. Asking about a .223 for deer use is going to open up a big can of worms here. Ever try different bullets with different weights in your 270 in order to save meat?
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Don't worry, I'm not paying attention to what those guys say. I'm paying attention to what the guys who do it say. I'm especially not paying attention to the guys who make remarks about my shooting skills. ;)

drache said:
My grandfather hunted deer during the depression using nothing more than a .22LR to keep his family fed. One round per deer is all he ever needed. It's called shot placement.

I loved my .270 but replaced it with a .243 and haven't looked back though.
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They're natives here who hunt the deer around here with a .22 magnum. They all say its a one shot kill but I've never witnessed them actually do it.
 
yodave said:
I was going to tell you that I am from the island and I posted already..........but then after reading your post I decided it might be best if I wasn't grouped in or associated to you and your ways of thinking..........
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my way of thinking is not flawed. if you saw what i saw you would #### yourself. that sayed i will say you will never truelly know. trust me, i have a native wife and am in no way racist but i do not agree with the way alot of the natives hunt down here and she know's that. there are a couple of her nephews i am just waiting to lay an ass whoop'n too. you gotta have respect for the animal even if your shoot'n it.
 
hometownhero said:
Id use mine if I could. Hundred yards or so with hornady 55gr gmx or nosler 60gr partition will do nicely.
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they do indeed, especially the partition loads. Most people east of the island in question don't realize just how small these animals are LOL, they aren't much bigger then domestic goats yet guys still feel the need to knock them down with magnums and big bores............
 
Haha - yep, some areas it's like hunting golden retrievers with antlers :p Texada definitely has some weird little deer - Vanc Island's deer are at least a little bigger than that.

I'd say that yes, a .223 will work, but I would also say that you'd be a lot better off with .243, .260 Remington, 7mm-08 or 30-30. 243 is just that slight bit more powerful than the .223 and is widely used in england (partially because of their laws) on their various mini deer, though theirs are really small... .260 is ballistically similar to 6.5x55 and is flat shooting, low recoil and hard hitting. 7mm-08 is the current up and coming deer sized game cartridge with its blend of phenomenal ballistics and velocity as well as greater mass, all in a short action cartridge with low recoil...

All that said, I love my 30-30. You aren't getting a lot of long shots on the island so a 170gr bullet won't limit you, but it will certainly drop a deer hard within 100 yards and still provide almost zero recoil. I used to use 150gr bullets, but for the trade off of a couple inches in drop I got that much more lead arriving on target, so can't complain at all. I can safely say that I'd take a 30-30 most places in BC and feel pretty secure. In fact, last summer I faced down a pair of very large black bears in the Northern Rockies with just my Win 94 and while I wasn't pleased about the situation, I was happy to have a mag of 170gr projectiles ready to rock as fast as I could swing that lever.
 
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yodave said:
they do indeed, especially the partition loads. Most people east of the island in question don't realize just how small these animals are LOL, they aren't much bigger then domestic goats yet guys still feel the need to knock them down with magnums and big bores............
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Yea, exactly. They're not much bigger than large breed dogs. In fact, I believe are wolves are bigger than them. 50kg is said to be the average size wolf which is about 104lbs. If I would of started the thread, Hunting Wolves With A .223, I probably would of had a much better outcome of people agreeing on it.
 
Please don't take a poodle shooter on a deer hunt. I don't care about stories of .22LR taking Grizzlies... 223 isn't going to guarantee an ethical kill. There's a wide assortment of adequate calibres. Why limit yourself?
 
My Buddy shot a six point Buck with his Ruger No1.223 that I sold him.The .23 is a bit light and needs the perfect shot,I personally would use something heavier.Just my opinion.
 
Learn to shoot...and to do so you need to shoot often.

A caliber like .223 allows you to shoot 100s-1000s of rounds cheaply (FMJ) without the need to be a heavily invested reloader. With factory .223Rem being at LEAST 2x cheaper then the next center fire calibers out there and even more so when you buy in bulk, you should be TWICE as good with your .223 then anything else. The smaller amount of recoil also isn't a bad thing either for making you a better shot.

With the SKILLS to shoot and knowing your gun and ammo inside and out you can place the shot where it needs to be and if not then stick to only hunting pop cans...

You need to learn about hunting, there is more involved then just carrying a gun, wearing an orange vest and shooting at an animal...learn where to shoot the animals your after and where not to shoot. Learn that sometimes it is best NOT TO TAKE A SHOT at all and it isn't because of the lack of a belted magnum caliber in your gun, it is because no clean shot is present, you should be shooting "though" ANYTHING at all to reach your target, .50BMG or not.

GET CLOSE!!! Just because your gun/caliber combo can allow you to nail steel ringers at (previously confirmed) long ranges there is not NEED to shoot the deer at 650 yards when you can get within 80 yards of the beast, it is careless and hunting is not about trying to get bragging rights.

A deer hit with a proper hunting load in .223Rem shot in the heart/lungs WILL DIE QUICKLY...it will not run off and heal within minutes. A deer shot in the ass with a .30-06 rifle that you cannot shoot without paying $25+/20 rounds for cheap-o soft points and flinching because your not used to it will also die...but it will not be anytime soon nor will you find it.
 
While I don't approve of shooting big game with minimum cartridges, I'm not going to change anyone's mind; God knows I've tried. But rather than being looked upon as the beginners cartridge due to its light report and gentle recoil, as is often touted, the .22 center-fires should be considered the expert's cartridge when big game is the target. If everything goes well, the game dies quickly, sometimes very quickly, but other times due to poor bullet choice, poor marksmanship, or just due to bad luck, things don't go so well. The expert tends to make his own luck, while the novice must take what comes. Having said that, across the arctic, thousands of caribou,, wolves, seals, and dare I say polar bears, are killed with .223s and .22-250s. Many a northern native would wonder what all the fuss was about. But I submit that there is a difference between a subsistence hunter after groceries and an annual deer hunt conducted for sport.

FWIW, and no one cares what I think, the .243 with premium bullets should be considered the starting point for small to medium big game, and if the rifle is to be a general purpose big game rifle, one of the 6.5s is a better choice for the hunter concerned with recoil and blast.
 
The minimalistic attitude never ceases to amaze me. Why use the right tool for the job when you "may" be able to get by with the wrong one. Boomer is correct, no body cares what we think, and we are not going to change anyone's mind, so really why ask the question in the first place.
 
Boomer said:
While I don't approve of shooting big game with minimum cartridges, I'm not going to change anyone's mind; God knows I've tried. But rather than being looked upon as the beginners cartridge due to its light report and gentle recoil, as is often touted, the .22 center-fires should be considered the expert's cartridge when big game is the target. If everything goes well, the game dies quickly, sometimes very quickly, but other times due to poor bullet choice, poor marksmanship, or just due to bad luck, things don't go so well. The expert tends to make his own luck, while the novice must take what comes. Having said that, across the arctic, thousands of caribou,, wolves, seals, and dare I say polar bears, are killed with .223s and .22-250s. Many a northern native would wonder what all the fuss was about. But I submit that there is a difference between a subsistence hunter after groceries and an annual deer hunt conducted for sport.

FWIW, and no one cares what I think, the .243 with premium bullets should be considered the starting point for small to medium big game, and if the rifle is to be a general purpose big game rifle, one of the 6.5s is a better choice for the hunter concerned with recoil and blast.
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I often see the "it's what Arctic hunters use" excuse from people who really don't know the hunting practices up there. Obviously that's not the case with you.
Comparing Vancouver Island to the Arctic is about as polarized as you can get for terrain comparison when hunting and if the animals had a better chance of escape I believe they'd probably start using larger calibers up there.

And I agree with everything you've said on caliber selection.
 
The people I know that hunt white tails, black tails, and sitka deer with .22 centerfires use Barnes bullets for the most part, a couple I think use an African made monolithic bullet and one guy uses Partitions.
All use a fast twist.
A couple use .223AI's.
Non have experienced lost deer, bad penetration, or hours of tracking after every shot.
Non of these people hunt bigger stuff with their .22's either.
A couple used suppressed guns in England with small calibers, and one guy in Germany used nothing but a 22 savage Highpower.

Cat
 
mlehtovaara said:
I'd choose a rifle with a different twist rate, and the ability to stabilize heavier bullets if you are buying a gun for deer.

Limiting yourself to a .223 is one thing, but then lighter bullets is just silly.
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100 percent correct. It's the bullet - not the caliber. You need at least a 1:9 twist and a 1:7 is better. Shoot bullets no lighter than 69 grains and you're gonna do just fine.
 
I'm not a fan of the .223 for anything larger than coyotes, but I do know that under ideal conditions, and with premium bullets, guys make it work.

If you like that CZ (and why wouldn't you...), then buy one in 7.62x39 and you'll have an honest close to medium range deer rifle.

BTW, if your .270 does too much meat damage, try either some lower power handloads (if you can), or some 150 grain, heavily constructed bullets that will do less meat damage.
 
A 223 will kill a deer with a good bullet and good shot placement. Far from my first choice though. I'd follow the suggestions of others and go with a premium bullet in your 270 or get a 243. And I've found the 308 tends to make smaller holes than anything that launches a hunting bullet at over 3000 fps.
 
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