Hunting deer with ANTIQUE rifles in Ontario

I didnt mean that was a legal definition but could be used to define it. It works over here. If a calibre is no longer available commercially then the weapon has a certain status. Its different for pistols and revolvers here but with rifles its clear cut. Hence a Martini Enfield is legally an antique if sold on its age but the firearms act deem .303 to be non antique so section one firearm.
It is one of the hurdles you may or may not face when getting weapons classed for that extended season!
I wasnt commenting on your law but pointing out where it doesnt always work!
 
TimC said:
No you miss the point, if the cartridge was available at the cut off date in theory then the round is antique, they arent going to make you hunt with 120 year old ammo are they? My point was what happens when you fire modern pressure full on 45 70 as opposed to one of an authentic for the time frame energy? So if I cant afford a high wall from before the date but shoot using a repro (were that allowed and it is in competitions where spirit of the original is enforced) how do you stop hunters using modern energy level ammo as opposed to authentic energy level ammo? Its a problem we have here with historic rifle shooting, how do you ensure someone isnt creating handloads in competition for a set range rather than to match original specs?
Range gamesmanship is appalling and thhere is no money at stake.
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I understand your point, but quite simply the problems you bring up are exactly why I inferred this is not a workable option. It's not a weekend shoot at a range, it's a hunting season involving tens of thousands of unsupervised hunters in a province which is roughly the size of western europe.

There is no way the Ministry of Natural resources will even consider legislating a season for "antique energy level" ammo (for lack of a better name) because 99% of hunters don't reload and would cry bloody murder that they were being discriminated against.
 
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Those of you not understanding the definition of "antique" should check the sticky's in the antiques forum and the RCMP site for the correct definition. Pre 1898 single shot centerfire with a bore size over 8.3 mm. We aren't talking reproductions or caliber wise here. It's cut and dried. NO REPRODUCTIONS. NO WINCHESTER LEVERS.
 
"...there..." Where?
Antique cartridge firing rifles are not primitive firearms. If you want to hunt with a BP cartridge rifle, go right ahead. During the regular rifle season.
 
CROWCA said:
In Ontario it was always a muzzle loader season never a primitive weapon season(although they are only include, if a muzzle loader)
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Originally, these seasons were granted to archers and muzzleloader shooters who justified the sepaprate season with the challenge offered by their equipment: sidelock roundball rifles and either longbows or recurves. the governments of many states and provinces saw the point and allowed the extra field time.
Then the extra field time became the primary attraction for many hunters. They were uninterested in the challenge of primitive archery or traditional muzzleloaders; they just wanted to get the time afield that others had earned for them. Fair enough, I guess. Not everyone wants a flintlock.
But then the inline showed up, and faster loading methods and longer range capability and in my opinion the original raison d'etre of the season has been all but lost. And now some people want to use cartridge rifles that are even faster to reload than inlines? Sure, and if that passes, people will want to be allowed reproduction rifles too, and so on and so on. I disagree and think it needs to stop somewhere. If that's elitist, I guess I'm guilty.

And no, the season has NOT always been called "Muzzleloader season" in Ontario. Back 25 or 30 years ago, there was a one-week "primitive weapons season" before regular firearms season in many Ontario jurisdictions. It was called this because it was for bows and muzzleloaders at the same time.

I don't mind being corrected, but that does require that you actually be right.
 
The first muzzle loader season in wmu 80 I hunted it with a Remington 700 ml which I have today and still use!!!!!!!!!Oh the dreaded in line oh the sky is falling!!I don't mind being right all the time but check your info,the muzzle loader season in wmu 80 is approx 10 years old falls in the first week of December or close to it!!!!!!!!
Was a separate season and had approx 300 tags.WMU 80 was looking to shoot some does to bring down the herd!!So you have been corrected again must happen a lot to you.Your post was fine I did not think you had to include the last line.
 
CROWCA said:
The first muzzle loader season in wmu 80 I hunted it with a Remington 700 ml which I have today and still use!!!!!!!!!Oh the dreaded in line oh the sky is falling!!I don't mind being right all the time but check your info,the muzzle loader season in wmu 80 is approx 10 years old falls in the first week of December or close to it!!!!!!!!
Was a separate season and had approx 300 tags.WMU 80 was looking to shoot some does to bring down the herd!!So you have been corrected again must happen a lot to you.Your post was fine I did not think you had to include the last line.
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The conversation was not specifically about wmu80. You missed where Kilo Charlie said "originally", I guess. He is entirely correct that the muzzle loading / primitive weapons seasons have been around for much longer than 10 years. Promise.

Personally I think inlines are cheating and question the character of a person who would use them, but since they are not illegal (yet!) then i will accept that some people can enjoy their useage. ;)
 
In lines will never be illegal in Ontario but you may have problems out west(I don't live there so i am unaware of who is working to ban them if anyone)!You are right I question the integrity of hunters who feel there way of hunting is the only way to do it,perhaps we should all go back to throwing rocks at game.A side benefit would be no registration would be needed!!
 
CROWCA said:
In lines will never be illegal in Ontario but you may have problems out west(I don't live there so i am unaware of who is working to ban them if anyone)!You are right I question the integrity of hunters who feel there way of hunting is the only way to do it,perhaps we should all go back to throwing rocks at game.A side benefit would be no registration would be needed!!
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I didn't say inlines should be banned. I said i think "personally" they are cheating. Do you understand the concept of "personally"?

I said I accept and understand why people like yourself enjoy using inlines. You protest very strongly - bit of a guilty conscience, perhaps? :p
 
While on the topic of cheating, to take birds with two shots at your disposal - as with a fine English double - is quite alright. However this business of three shots in a pump is cheating regardless of whether the regs allow it - it just isn't cricket. Don't know how the three shot crowd sleep at night. Seems inlines aren't cricket either - at least listening to those you know exactly about where the line must be drawn regarding the best muzzleloader hunting etiquette.
As an aside sound suppressors are a must for the well heeled hunter - for health and safety reasons. Only savages would shoot an unsuppressed hunting rifle I think. Oh and be sure you don't misplace the silverware beside the dinner plate - one would not want a sin like that on your conscience either.
 
Whelen B said:
While on the topic of cheating, to take birds with two shots at your disposal - as with a fine English double - is quite alright. However this business of three shots in a pump is cheating regardless of whether the regs allow it - it just isn't cricket. Don't know how the three shot crowd sleep at night. Seems inlines aren't cricket either - at least listening to those you know exactly about where the line must be drawn regarding the best muzzleloader hunting etiquette.
As an aside sound suppressors are a must for the well heeled hunter - for health and safety reasons. Only savages would shoot an unsuppressed hunting rifle I think. Oh and be sure you don't misplace the silverware beside the dinner plate - one would not want a sin like that on your conscience either.
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Now that's good thinking. Of course the fine english double wouldn't be cheating in a muzzleloading season as long as it is a muzzleloader and the provincial regs don't specify a single shot.

Now I'm not too sure about the pump - you don't see many muzzleloading pump actions out here. Put up some pictures, I'd like to see that one. Sound suppressors are illegal. Surely you do not propose breaking the law? My god, where is your integrity man???:p
 
My god, where is your integrity man???
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How dare you question my integrity! I will not drive over 75km/hr in a 80km/hr zone. How's that for integrity? I have the most integrity. You and everyone else should do the same. I consider more than 75 in a 80 as cheating and unnecessary even though permitted by law. 75 will still get you where you are going just fine and be safer too. It's just the right thing to do.
 
Whelen B said:
How dare you question my integrity! I will not drive over 75km/hr in a 80km/hr zone. How's that for integrity? I have the most integrity. You and everyone else should do the same. I consider more than 75 in a 80 as cheating and unnecessary even though permitted by law. 75 will still get you where you are going just fine and be safer too. It's just the right thing to do.
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I would have said you're a few bricks short of a load, but a few km under the limit works just as well. :p
 
Whelen B said:
Maybe and BTW you are getting closer to my meaning in all this. But really I'm more of a snob than anything. We are so alike.
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I don't confess to understand or care about your drivel, but i would hazard a guess that your feelings were hurt when I said I personally question the integrity of using inlines. Regardless, I still feel the same. You failed.

What I didn't do is act like an ass and attempt to ridicule another CGNer through (bad) attempts at sarcasm.
For the record, I am not a fan of inlines but I do not grudge their use by others. I have a right to my own thoughts and I will not let sarcastic jackassery influence that opinion. Adults should be able to accept that different people have different opinions.
 
What I didn't do is act like an ass and attempt to ridicule another CGNer through (bad) attempts at sarcasm.
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Sorry I'll try to not do that again - no malice was/is intended. I have no wish to make enemies here. I was just trying to make my point a little differently. I'll stick to plain speak from now on. My apologies.
...but I do not grudge their use by others.
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Also I misjudged/misread you I think. Many do grudge others. I also do not judge others for just playing the (game law) cards they are dealt as they see fit.
 
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