Hunting Grizzly with the 45-70

Suther said:
I feel like the killing power score is a really bad scale. Interesting to look at, but that's about it. Its too biased towards heavy bullets. A 150gr 30-06 only has a score of like 37, and I don't think you'll find many sane people who think the 45-70 is 4 times the gun.
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I shot a Moose with my 458 Win. Mag. using a Hornady 500gr RN that hit it broadside at about 1700 fps. Smashed both shoulders, lots of blood spattered on the bushes and pooled under it. Made quite the mess. I've never seen that using a small bore rifle.
 
sgt.rock said:
Doesn't matter, because by the time we all reach a consensus about if a 45/70 can kill a grizzly, the hunt will be banned. The anti's are starting again with the grizz hunt ban b.s.
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let s dream that is still doable ... can you hunt them in NWT or do you need the tag from locals associations ... i got bear fever now ...
 
Slamfire said:
I shot a Moose with my 458 Win. Mag. using a Hornady 500gr RN that hit it broadside at about 1700 fps. Smashed both shoulders, lots of blood spattered on the bushes and pooled under it. Made quite the mess. I've never seen that using a small bore rifle.
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I doubt you've shot many small bore rifles that put out 4500-5500 ft/lbs of energy either (Do they even exist? lol I guess the 30-378 Weatherby?)

Another example then, 375 H&H 270 grain at 2690 fps - 106.2

.375 H&H 300 grain at 2530 fps - 113.0

which is well below the 400 and 500gr 45-70 loads you posted.
 
long range shooter said:
A bullet that will penetrate is best for grizzly. I would go with the 325gr Hornady Monoflex. (or a Barnes)
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THEY dont penetrate worth a SH*T ! There are MANY way better bullets including the Horn 250 gr Mono - it ways out penetrates the FTX and stays together too ! The FTX is a good deer bullet shot in the Lungs ! RJ
 
Weatherby2 said:
Good day folks. Well I was lucky enough to get a spring grizzly draw and I wanna use my 45-70! It shoots pretty good with everything i've put through it and I've rounded it down too 2 choices one being the 325gr Hornady FTX and the other being a Cast 390gr FP gas checked bullet from the bullet barn. What one would you use and why??? And Go😬
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Dan the Cast bullets HOLD up WELL and way out penetrate the Cup and Lead core bullets ! Bust the shoulders with a Big cast bullet tnad the Bear goes down for the count ! my fav Bullet is the 525 gr Bear Tooth Pile Drivers for Killing bears ! The Barnes 400 gr Bear Busters work well too ! RJ
 
remington jim said:
Dan the Cast bullets HOLD up WELL and way out penetrate the Cup and Lead core bullets ! Bust the shoulders with a Big cast bullet tnad the Bear goes down for the count ! my fav Bullet is the 525 gr Bear Tooth Pile Drivers for Killing bears ! The Barnes 400 gr Bear Busters work well too ! RJ
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Got any you wanna part with Jim ��
 
Suther said:
I feel like the killing power score is a really bad scale. Interesting to look at, but that's about it. Its too biased towards heavy bullets. A 150gr 30-06 only has a score of like 37, and I don't think you'll find many sane people who think the 45-70 is 4 times the gun.
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I rather just use a 180g 30-06 and be done with it. 45-70 rates 4X that of an 06, what a joke Laugh2
 
canadaman30 said:
I rather just use a 180g 30-06 and be done with it. 45-70 rates 4X that of an 06...
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And be at 4x the risk of the big Grizzly doing the rumba on your toupee??
grin1.gif
 
I think many here confuse hunting a grizzly and defending against one. I know guys who have successfully taken grizzly with a 243 but the bear never knew they were there and a good shot was made, ending the hunt immediately. Hunting with a 45-70 will certainly limit the hunter but the cartridge is more than capable of performing the task necessary. My son took a nice 7+ ft grizzly with his bow at about 35 mtrs (not over bait as that is not legal in the Yukon, it was spot and stalk) and it worked great, dead inside 10 mtrs thereafter. Again he was hunting the bear, and although the bear may have been aware of his presence it was not being aggressive towards him. That would have been a whole 'nother story, but I have taught him to read bear body language. They will let you know if you are OK or are too close or if they are in a pissy mood..........all this factors in, in how difficult that bear will be to kill. Most grizzlies will bolt when arrowed or shot but some will come, only if they know what and where you are. This is where the hunting part comes in, if you have successfully stalked to within the effective range of your chosen weapon and remain unnoticed by the bear, he will be no harder than any other animal to kill and a lung shot will put him down very quickly. However, if you have been playing ring-around-the-blueberry-bush for the past 1/2 hr trying to get a shot, I'll pretty much guarantee he's gonna come if the shot is not instantly debilitating.
Another characteristic of bears in general, is that they do not succumb to shock as deer and sheep do. They are much more like cape buffalo in that way, especially after they are alerted, or wounded. If you do have to follow up a wounded bear, nothing you can carry in your hands is going to feel adequate for the job at hand. So even though you think your first shot was terminal, keep shooting as long as the bear is in sight and moving.
I doubt you will see much difference in any bullet you decide to use in the 45-70. Velocities are not in the bullet destruction range and bears are not made of Kevlar, so use what ever shoots the best and put the bullet where it belongs at a range appropriate for your cartridge and rifle and you too shall have a grizzly rug.............
A 45-70 would not be my first choice or fifth choice as a grizzly hunting cartridge but neither would I feel undergunned if I had one in my hands and a grizzly showed up within my effective range.
 
The 30/06 kills plenty of Grizzlies every year , and we all know it's the best all around caliber in the world able to flatten anything from ground squirrels to elephants.For specifically grizzly hunting I prefer a bigger bore, is it needed maybe not. as for the questions about grizzly hunting with a 45/70, I would load it with a Hornady 350 flat nose around 2000fps in a marlin and keep shots inside 125yds. Most grizzlies are under 400lbs and I prefer a bullet that expands over a really hard cast for average size Grizzlies.
 
I agree with c-fbmi, no problem for the 45/70 with an undisturbed bear. Altogether a different story with one that is injured and knows where the injury came from. Some of the advice here is from people who have been there and done this, most is from people that have never seen a live grizzly except in a zoo and are full of theoretical wisdom. However, you can't pick the size or disposition of the critter you're hunting, nor usually the circumstances and without bait (BC) you will spot and stalk, take an opportunity if presented. You may only get one chance during your draw period and most hunters don't have the will power to pass on a less than perfect shot. You neeed to be prepared for a worst case scenario where everything goes sideways in the blink of an eye. With adrenalin flowing sometimes judgement takes a back seat, remember if you pick a fight with the biggest toughest kid in the neighbourhood you may lose. Take a steady reliable partner with a suitable stopper for backup in case things go bad. Probably won't be necessary but then neither is car insurance. With a large dead animal on the ground some extra muscle is always welcome. J
 
c-fbmi said:
I think many here confuse hunting a grizzly and defending against one. I know guys who have successfully taken grizzly with a 243 but the bear never knew they were there and a good shot was made, ending the hunt immediately. Hunting with a 45-70 will certainly limit the hunter but the cartridge is more than capable of performing the task necessary. My son took a nice 7+ ft grizzly with his bow at about 35 mtrs (not over bait as that is not legal in the Yukon, it was spot and stalk) and it worked great, dead inside 10 mtrs thereafter. Again he was hunting the bear, and although the bear may have been aware of his presence it was not being aggressive towards him. That would have been a whole 'nother story, but I have taught him to read bear body language. They will let you know if you are OK or are too close or if they are in a pissy mood..........all this factors in, in how difficult that bear will be to kill. Most grizzlies will bolt when arrowed or shot but some will come, only if they know what and where you are. This is where the hunting part comes in, if you have successfully stalked to within the effective range of your chosen weapon and remain unnoticed by the bear, he will be no harder than any other animal to kill and a lung shot will put him down very quickly. However, if you have been playing ring-around-the-blueberry-bush for the past 1/2 hr trying to get a shot, I'll pretty much guarantee he's gonna come if the shot is not instantly debilitating.
Another characteristic of bears in general, is that they do not succumb to shock as deer and sheep do. They are much more like cape buffalo in that way, especially after they are alerted, or wounded. If you do have to follow up a wounded bear, nothing you can carry in your hands is going to feel adequate for the job at hand. So even though you think your first shot was terminal, keep shooting as long as the bear is in sight and moving.
I doubt you will see much difference in any bullet you decide to use in the 45-70. Velocities are not in the bullet destruction range and bears are not made of Kevlar, so use what ever shoots the best and put the bullet where it belongs at a range appropriate for your cartridge and rifle and you too shall have a grizzly rug.............
A 45-70 would not be my first choice or fifth choice as a grizzly hunting cartridge but neither would I feel undergunned if I had one in my hands and a grizzly showed up within my effective range.
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Interesting. Ardent actually said the opposite in regards to shock, and he suggested 30 06 over 45-70 for that reason. (I think that was in the mountain hunting thread the other week where you showed off your light 300wm built for 150gr tsx)
 
c-fbmi said:
I think many here confuse hunting a grizzly and defending against one...However, if you have been playing ring-around-the-blueberry-bush for the past 1/2 hr trying to get a shot, I'll pretty much guarantee he's gonna come if the shot is not instantly debilitating...
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Then from a risk management perspective a dangerous game rifle should be used because the tables could turn rather quickly. :eek:
 
I know its a little off topic and I have gotten more then enough feedback from everyone thank you very much so heres my next question. I just got my hands on 2 boxs of 300gr ballistic silver tips not planning to use them on grizzly but are they a decent bullet?
 
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