Hunting Grizzly with the 45-70

Suther said:
I hear the 30-06 is a better grizz gun than the 45-70. Grizz are apparently susceptible to shock, so a faster smaller bullet would provide quicker kills than a big slow one. Yeah the 45-70 will kill, but how far will the bear go after getting shot before it's done for?...
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It sort of depends where the hole is located. Bust both front shoulders, his spine, or his hip, he's not going far. CNS=DRT. Shoot him in the paw, he'll shoot a reverse azimuth on your rifle muzzle, and cover that distance in an astonishingly short period of time, but then that's true of shooting him in the paw with any big game cartridge.
 
Another bullet I might consider is the Hornady 500gr RN. The Hornady Handbook doesn't recommend this bullet for the Marlin because it needs to be seated quite deeply in order to cycle through the action but it can be done.

In 24" barrel Marlin I got a muzzle speed of 1600 fps. I have used this bullet on Moose in my 458 Win. Mag. at about 1950 fps MV and it shoots clear through broadside out to intermediate ranges. Works great - lots of shock, smashed bone and exsanguination. Would need to get closer with the Marlin to offset the lower muzzle speed.

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Saying a 45-70 won't handle a grizzly is like saying fish can't swim.............it's been done many times...........Harold
 
Slamfire said:
Another bullet I might consider is the Hornady 500gr RN. The Hornady Handbook doesn't recommend this bullet for the Marlin because it needs to be seated quite deeply in order to cycle through the action but it can be done.

In 24" barrel Marlin I got a muzzle speed of 1600 fps. I have used this bullet on Moose in my 458 Win. Mag. at about 1950 fps MV and it shoots clear through broadside out to intermediate ranges. Works great - lots of shock, smashed bone and exsanguination. Would need to get closer with the Marlin to offset the lower muzzle speed.

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not a good idea to put two of those in the magazine .... so in fact you have a single shot rifle ...
 
I'd like to thank everyone for their valuable information it's been very helpful. This will be my first time hunting grizzly with a 45-70 not my first time hunting grizzly though I usually use a 375 Ruger but I optied to try something different this year and bought a Jm stamped Marlin SBL and my back up will be a 300 RUM just in case. I do have a box of 405gr to as well as 350gr casts I can try I just thought it'd be better if I was able to push those pills out faster but the more I read I'm realizing speed really isn't needed or am I reading this wrong?
 
Differences in velocity in a 45/70 within similar pressures are not significant with different bullet weights. In your Marlin all your loads will be in the same ball park. Higher velocity won't make your gun into a long range wonder or a high velocity shocker. You need a load that will hit hard, break bone and penetrate as much as possible. Hard cast bullets with a large flat nose can work in some rifles but we found that the Marlins with their Micro Groove rifling wouldn't stabilize lead bullets, accuracy was non existent. Your preferred range for this shot would be 50-100 yards and at this range you can't afford a mistake. I will guarantee a grizz can cover this distance with a .45 calibre hole through his pump and then do a rumba an your toupee and do it so fast it will shock you. Lung shots won't do, you need to anchor these bears on the first shot by breaking spine, shoulders, hip or best of all shoulder and spine. Good luck, J
 
Ashcroft said:
...Micro Groove rifling wouldn't stabilize lead bullets, accuracy was non existent....shot would be 50-100 yards...you can't afford a mistake...and then do a rumba an your toupee...
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Plus the strong possibility of getting the buttons chewed off your shirt. :p

Maybe time to reflect on your choice of the Marlin 45-70?
 
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I don't think there are a lot of animals on this Earth a 45-70 won't stop in its tracks. If you hit a bear in the paw or the rump with a 970 WhizBang Magnum, you've got a problem. Hit any bear properly with a 45-70 and a good bullet that will hold together, and you have a rug. Simple as that. It's a bear, not an M1 Abrams (unless it's a bear in an M1), or "bear" is a code word for some critter I've never seen.
 
Slamfire said:
With a CNS hit just fill in the blank with most any round and be done with this.

It's the situation where the hit is off the mark a bit that's the concern here.
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Exactly, and for a non-expanding hard cast bullet the margin narrows... and the issue is not even if the bear runs "AT" you after the shot... running into the nasty scrub brush presents it's own concerns. I am quite certain you can kill the bear, but take the utmost precautions when it comes to range and body posture and bullet placement... do it all right and you are golden... err just a wee bit and you will be in for some excitement... even if that only means a tense 200-300 yard blood trail through cover too thick to see the muzzle of your rifle, leading to your dead bear... I have had a couple dozen of those .45/70 hard cast trails to follow over the years and that was on clients black bears, multiply the adrenaline X10 for a gnarly old grizzly boar.
 
FYI, it has been becoming more popular to use the .45-70 (with premium bullets) for dangerous in Africa. I have no doubt with the right bullet and shot placement it will be fine for grizz. Supposedly many guides have carried these as backups to clients guns as well.
 
I have loaded this bullet for 45/70 as well.. I used a compressed load of 3031 to keep it from seating further. They worked pretty well on anything I shot them at but sadly no moose or anything interesting. I did get the impression that they had some thump to them though. Quick load says that even compressed at 105% it's only 1366 fps though.




Slamfire said:
Another bullet I might consider is the Hornady 500gr RN. The Hornady Handbook doesn't recommend this bullet for the Marlin because it needs to be seated quite deeply in order to cycle through the action but it can be done.

In 24" barrel Marlin I got a muzzle speed of 1600 fps. I have used this bullet on Moose in my 458 Win. Mag. at about 1950 fps MV and it shoots clear through broadside out to intermediate ranges. Works great - lots of shock, smashed bone and exsanguination. Would need to get closer with the Marlin to offset the lower muzzle speed.

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Marlin500.jpg
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An early edition of the Hornady Handbook has load data for the 500gr RN in a Winchester 1886 lever rifle. If I recall correctly 1400 fps is listed as maximum. I managed to get muzzle speed up to 1625 fps safely in a 24" barrel Marlin. Should perform well on heavy game. Takes the Marlin 45-70 to the next level. ;)
 
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I would use a Pedersoli Remington Rolling Block and 500 grain RN soft lead bullets, over a slightly compressed load of black powder.

Reloading quickly, I would also stand ready with my 10" Bowie knife, should hand to claw fighting be necessary.

;)
 
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