Hunting Grizzly with the 45-70

Two things I don't care for on that bullet are the strongly beveled backside and the fact that it is 0.457"... I have always gotten best results with cast, shooting bullets 1 or 2 thou over bore diameter... most of my 45/70 cast are 0.459" and my 350"s are 0.460". They claim "no leading," but I would like to see that in real world results... maybe yours?

A soft bullet like that should obturate and form to the full bore diameter, so leading from gas cutting shouldn't be an issue, but I'm concerned about the single grease groove. The amount and quality of the lube is an important factor in whether or not a bullet fouls the bore at any given velocity, and I'd be happier if a shank that long had two grooves. As for the bevelled base, an "M" die is a better solution to the problem of seating cast bullets without shaving.
 
My experience leads me to believe that the single biggest factor for leading is the bullet diameter in relation to the bore diameter, the looser the bullet (so to speak), the greater the potential for leading. In my minds eye, I picture the bullet "banking" off the walls of the bore as it progresses... probably not a reasonable picture except in theory, but I do know, I see a lot less leading when: a) the bullet is a couple thou over the slugged bore. b) non-GC bullets are flat based... just my observations.
 
Personally I don't think that bullet will obturate in the bore at all, (especially with smokeless powder) for two reasons...18 BN isn't all that soft and the bevel base won't get smacked hard enough to fill the void. A better choice would be the Lee HB 405 with softer alloy I think (not necessarily pure lead but even cow at a BN of 10 or 12.
 
... but I'm concerned about the single grease groove. The amount and quality of the lube is an important factor in whether or not a bullet fouls the bore at any given velocity, and I'd be happier if a shank that long had two grooves...

I agree... my 405's have three lube grooves... the shank is long enough, so why not?

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My choice would not be a 45-70.

The gun you should use should be the one you shoot most accurately and are comfortable with. Any gun equal to or larger than a 30-06 with a bullet which will stay together (i.e. mono metal) is a good choice. I personally like the 300 win mag with a 175 Barnes bullet. I shot a 800 lb plus coastal grizzly at 250 yards with a 175 gr Barnes with one shot right through the heart. He walked 6 steps and fell over. Shot placement is always the most important in hunting.

Unfortunately people think bigger is better and they cannot manage the recoil and end up making a bad shot.

Many northern guides carry a large bore for self defense in the bush (the hunter is doing the hunting, the guide has his gun for back up and protection). The majority of guides I have seen carry a 375 H&H or a 416 or even a 12 gauge with slugs/000.
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Again, the topic is not hunting the grizz, but shooting him while he's charging at you. Solid lever action 45-70 is better choice then any bolt action ot Ruget #1 as someone mentioned.
 
if we are looking for a charging bear defense thread for sure i wont use a 4570 in a lever action ... but what do i know .... just camping some nights every year around grizz ....
 
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Again, the topic is not hunting the grizz, but shooting him while he's charging at you. Solid lever action 45-70 is better choice then any bolt action ot Ruget #1 as someone mentioned.
:confused:

I thought this thread is about putting the big Grizzly down right now with a properly loaded Marlin 45-70 so it has no chance of doing the rumba on your toupee.
 
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Again, the topic is not hunting the grizz, but shooting him while he's charging at you. Solid lever action 45-70 is better choice then any bolt action ot Ruget #1 as someone mentioned.

I coulda sworn the title of the thread was "Hunting Grizzly With the .45/70". Yup, that's what it sez alright.

But I don't mind talking about protection rifles for a minute. I carried a Ruger #1 for a while, and I certainly prefer a repeater, but a slower reload wasn't the issue I had. The issue I had was that after a few hours on the trail, I'd unsling and discover the damn safety had moved to the fire position. That used to bug me, and I became anal about slinging the rifle muzzle down, and ensuring anyone with me walked on the opposite side. I tried carrying the rifle with the action out of battery, and only managed to decorate the tundra with expensive .416 Rigby ammo, not to mention the potential inconvenience of having an unloaded rifle, at an inopportune moment. So the #1, as much as I like it, is off my list of protection guns.

Regular practice is essential for anyone who carries a defensive firearm, particularly if they are responsible for protecting others. I have nothing against lever action rifles, in fact few rifles are as nice to carry for extended periods of time due to their thin profile. But when a traditional lever action is chambered for a powerful cartridge that generates in excess of 50 ft-lbs of recoil, the stock design results in brutal felt recoil, and the fingers of the firing hand are bruised against the lever, unless they're wrapped around the outside of the loop. That doesn't encourage anyone to practice regularly with full power loads. By comparison, the bolt gun, in its better examples, manages felt recoil well, gives up nothing in terms of target reacquisition, or the speed of a subsequent shot on a moving target. The bolt gun just isn't quite as nice to carry all day.

The country you operate in should be taken into consideration when considering an appropriate rifle. The barrens and coastal areas typically are seemingly empty wide open spaces, but are where bears can appear suddenly and without warning. Should you be guarding a site where numerous people are spread over a large open area, armed with any rifle short of a flat shooting, scoped, bolt action, and your involvement is diminished from participant to observer. If on the same day you find yourself in heavy cover, its prudent to mount the scope in QD rings, so it can be quickly removed, and your irons become the primary sighting equipment.

The .45/70 lever action has long since proven itself a capable defensive rifle for the individual, where its purpose is simply to prevent the bear from touching you. But its not "the best" rifle for such duty any more than its "the best" hunting rifle; its just one more option.
 
I prefer one of my lever gun's in 45-70 for possible bear protection,but what Boomer just wrote above makes such a good point it's hard to argue otherwise. And I own about 10 #1's and use them as my main hunting rifle.
 
Seems quick repeat fire is perceived as what's needed for reliable protection. With a rifle that has wallop with quick follow up capability in case the first shot is ineffectual.

Perhaps, but not as much as a knowledge of bear behavior and physiology, a sense of comfort in wild places, a good pair of binoculars, confidence in your rifle, and competence in its use.
 
Well the bullets I was gonna use were 390gr with .459 diameter after talking too a gentleman in Alberta i'm gonna try the 425gr cast in .460 diameter so it engages the lands and groves better which should in turn better my accuracy with the marlin micro grove barrel. I'll keep you posted of the results.
 
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