Hunting Grizzly with the 45-70

[bearkilr]

According to Geist the A-Y Moose does have a better food source; fast growing, highly palatable, mineral rich vegetation.

While Geist does have some good reading, especially on sheep, I don't necessarily take his word as gospel on everything. Simply put, I have trouble believing that AK/YK moose have the best food available of all moose. But perhaps this is his explanation for their size, as he's a detractor of Bergmann's Rule.

Anyhow, back to grizzly and the 45-70.

 

[Slamfire]

Heavy cast in the Marlin 45-70 and the cojones to get close enough will get 'er done.

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

Heavy cast in the Marlin 45-70 and the cojones to get close enough will get 'er done.

That's more like it. Nice bombs & where did ye source them?

 

[Slamfire]

I always liked the idea of using heavy cast bullets in the Marlin 45-70. Just need to make or source ones that will shoot accurately.

 

[SHELL SHUCKER]

Heavy cast in the Marlin 45-70 and the cojones to get close enough will get 'er done.

These be the Jae-Bok Young boolits & I'll be ordering in some of these buggers fer sure. They'll be great in my .458 as well.

 

[Slamfire]

Got the Hornady 500gr RN to shoot ok in the Marlin at 1625 fps MV (24" barrel). Heavy cast FN would be preferred in the tube magazine.

 

[Camp Cook]

More than that a round nose jacketed bullet (RNJ) would just pencil thru an animal acting like a FMJ bullets doing very little damage resulting in an injured animal.

I would never load my 45-70's with heavy RNJ bullets that are designed to expand at higher velocities in the 458 Win + cartridges ever for any reason.

Now hard cast gas checked bullets they are a different story they are made with flat meplates (flat tip of the bullet) that create large wound cavities the wider the meplat the larger the wound cavity.

Here are some of the bullets that I load for my 45-70's.

.458 bullets that I load/shoot left to right
150gr JRN .308 far left for size comparison
300gr Spitzer Alpha Lafrank
300gr Hornady HP
350gr Swift A-Frame
405gr Beartooth GC
405gr Spitzer Alpha Lafrank
425gr Beartooth WLNGC
430gr Cast Performance WLNGC
450gr Barnes TSX (I do not use these now due to they will not expand at 45-70 velocities)
525gr Beartooth WLNGC
550gr Jae-Bok Joung "Crater" WLNGC
525gr Beartooth WLNGC

 

[Slamfire]

Another bullet I might consider is the Hornady 500gr RN. The Hornady Handbook doesn't recommend this bullet for the Marlin because it needs to be seated quite deeply in order to cycle through the action but it can be done.

In 24" barrel Marlin I got a muzzle speed of 1600 fps. I have used this bullet on Moose in my 458 Win. Mag. at about 1950 fps MV and it shoots clear through broadside out to intermediate ranges. Works great - lots of shock, smashed bone and exsanguination. Would need to get closer with the Marlin to offset the lower muzzle speed.

...a round nose jacketed bullet (RNJ) would just pencil thru an animal acting like a FMJ bullets doing very little damage resulting in an injured animal.............

I would never load my 45-70's with heavy RNJ bullets that are designed to expand at higher velocities in the 458 Win + cartridges ever for any reason....the wider the meplat the larger the wound cavity...

Agree with the benefits of a wide meplat. Hornady 500gr RN at around 1700 fps impact speed also worked great with a shot through the shoulders.

 

[BigUglyMan]

oh BUM .... imagine a yukon moose against a nova scotia one lol ...

What Nova Scotia moose? Locals have them pretty much poached out. I'd love to get a few cattle trailers of Yukon moose and bring them here and release them. But it would probably be easier to just move to Whitehorse.

 

[Camp Cook]

Slamfire I agree it is a good bullet but its just to tough for the lowly 45-70 velocities it will pencil thru any animal unless it hits heavy bone.

Not saying it won't work I'm saying there are far better choices.

 

[Slamfire]

Higher the impact speed the better so that means getting close. Agreed heavy cast are better - and way cooler - but either way a shot through the off switch and it's DRT.

 

[Camp Cook]

Yes but the problem is at only 1600fps muzzle velocity these bullets will not even start expanding and the round nose will not create a wound cavity unless heavy bone is hit it will just zip thru.

Even rib bones won't be enough to start these bullets to expand, even if you hit the heart or lungs a bear will go a long ways hopefully away from you.

In other words I do not ecommend using these types of bullets for hunting bears.

You could grind the tips flat so you have a wide meplat they'd work then.

 

[Slamfire]

My objective is to smash through shoulder bone to sever the spinal chord. Just need to penetrate straight through to do that. Expansion may be preferred but isn't necessary with a heavy .45.

 

[medvedqc]

so you prefer breaking the mechanic than doing a pneumothorax?

 

[medvedqc]

here is a design coming from alaska but first designed by the swedish hunting association ...

h t t p ://www.triplecoutfittersalaska.com/sitebuilder/images/_Bear_Shot_Placement_big_one-510x630.jpg

 

[Slamfire]

Also messes up its mobility with smashed shoulder bones. No longer dangerous.

 

[Slamfire]

here is a design coming from alaska but first designed by the swedish hunting association ...

Interesting, they recommend a double lunger. Something about questioning the ability of typical small caliber high velocity bullets to be relied upon to overcome bone impact.

 

[Slamfire]

Yes but the problem is at only 1600fps muzzle velocity these bullets will not even start expanding and the round nose will not create a wound cavity unless heavy bone is hit it will just zip thru...

I've seen things to the contrary.

 

[Gatehouse]

Double lung is a sure kill, shoulder shots are better for dropping something but have a bit higher margin for error.

One grizzly hunt on BCs coast my buddy shoulder shot a nice male with a 7RM and a 160gr X bullet. Grizzly dropped but spine wasn't severed as he was using his rear legs just fine to propel himself around in circles until he died. Wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere near that!

Often the shot one takes on Amy animal is the one that presents itself. Best be ready to take what is given as hunting doesn't always go as planned.

 

[Slamfire]

Interesting, they recommend a double lunger. Something about questioning the ability of typical small caliber high velocity bullets to be relied upon to overcome bone impact.

Double lung is a sure kill, shoulder shots are better for dropping something but have a bit higher margin for error.

One grizzly hunt on BCs coast my buddy shoulder shot a nice male with a 7RM and a 160gr X bullet. Grizzly dropped but spine wasn't severed as he was using his rear legs just fine to propel himself around in circles until he died....

Would want to keep some distance away from that!