Hunting North American game with dangerous game calibers?

I shot my bison at just under 40 meters with my 9.3x62. It worked very well. Definitely not a case where I was overgunned. I also carried my 416 Rigby a couple of times but never had a shot at anything. That was a complete lark though, definitely no need of it for caribou.

Maybe I'll take one of the biggies out this fall, just for fun.
 
Ardent said:
The solution really is to buy a .375 H&H. It does everything you’re wanting to do, better. Shoot the two side by side on moose and bears, and you’ll see a trend over the seasons in favour of the faster .375. I have more reverence for the .458 Lott, however few including myself enjoy the recoil.

.458s aren’t without merit, they smash heavy bone and penetrate six feet when needed. Problem is that’s a rare calling on this continent, of thin skinned game that react more to a modicum of speed than bullet weight. It’s becoming a rarer and rarer calling anywhere frankly, as we destroy the last great wildernesses.

That’s the .458’s allure, it’s a monster rifle, without truly monster recoil. That captivates the imagination, even if a .30-06, .300, .338, or .375 will serve better for what we want to do here.
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I own a 375 as well and use it to hunt the same game. I love my CZ550 although it does feel quite "bulky" compared to my Model 70.
 
BigUglyMan said:
I shot my bison at just under 40 meters with my 9.3x62. It worked very well. Definitely not a case where I was overgunned. I also carried my 416 Rigby a couple of times but never had a shot at anything. That was a complete lark though, definitely no need of it for caribou.

Maybe I'll take one of the biggies out this fall, just for fun.
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Just taking the Rigby out of the safe sounds expensive haha. 416 Rigby factory ammo makes my 458 WinMag look cheap in comparison.
 
Northern Shooter said:
I own a 375 as well and use it to hunt the same game. I love my CZ550 although it does feel quite "bulky" compared to my Model 70.
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Lotta nice .375 Model 70s out there, I just bought one a few days ago. You’ll find it a far better North America rifle, and far better all around rifle anywhere frankly. There’s a reason it’s the global hunter’s 5 iron.
 
Ardent said:
Lotta nice .375 Model 70s out there, I just bought one a few days ago. You’ll find it a far better North America rifle, and far better all around rifle anywhere frankly. There’s a reason it’s the global hunter’s 5 iron.
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Yeah they were really onto something with that design. I doubt I'll be buying myself a second 375, however I may grab another Model 70 in 338 WM. Seems fitting to own both the 338 and 458 in Winchester rifles.
 
and yet, I'll bet, that Ruger .416 is still there in the back of your mind!! MUUUHHhaaa!! LOL

One thing about buying a used thumper is you are almost guaranteed a pristine bore. Not many are going to be shot out.
 
Pete04 said:
and yet, I'll bet, that Ruger .416 is still there in the back of your mind!! MUUUHHhaaa!! LOL

One thing about buying a used thumper is you are almost guaranteed a pristine bore. Not many are going to be shot out.
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416 Ruger is still on the menu if they ever show up. I kind of like the idea of shooting Win Mags out of Winchester's and 416 Rugers out of Rugers.

Once I add 338 and 416 to the stable I will be well covered. Until I start eyeing up those double rifles.
 
Just for the sake of discussion regarding these big bore/dangerous game cartridges.

At which point would you draw the line for a cartridge being "too much" for the largest of our North American game? I'm thinking Brown Bear, Moose and Bison. Of the three I'm guessing the Bison have the most body mass and would present the least likely of the trio for a complete pass through.

It sounds like many here have hunted NA game with their 9.62's, 375's, 416's and 458s so I'm willing to argue that all of those are "reasonable" application albeit on the top end for our game species.

What about the really big stuff larger than the 458's? Too excessive? too exotic? too much energy and recoil?

Anyone ever taken big game with a 500 NE? 500 Jeffery? 505 Gibbs? how did that turn out?

Edit: I see that Ardent had chimed in about some of these above, has anyone else had experience with them?
 
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We’ve beat this to death I’m afraid, I’ve used up to .505 Gibbs on bears. It’s never too much, it actually counter intuitively becomes less the heavier, slower, and stiffer on the bullet you go. The speeds are too slow, the bullets too stiff, and much of the effective energy passes right out the other side having not done work inside the animal. This can be found well below .375, bullet choice has a lot to do with it.

The one place they always leave their mark is your shoulder. All will reliably kill bears, as will an arrow. Just bear in mind you’re not gaining anything with the big bore, unless you’re a guide planning to mechanically break bone from bad angles at 10 yards. For hunting, you’re doing it for the fun of it, nothing wrong with that.

The quickest kills on big grizzlies were always 7mm Mag and .300s, the fast stuff. .375 did not bad but fast loads, 2600fps+. Been on a few bison hunts as well, the .30-06 did just as well as my .375, long as the shooter knows where to put it. The big bores are a fun hobby, not a requirement or improvement for any species on our continent. I had a .577 but found no reason to try it as I found diminishing returns as I went bigger, heavier, slower, and I stopped at .505.

Head to Africa, and the game changes somewhat if you’re doing the mortgage your house big five hunts. But not here. This all said we shoot big bores for the same reason people drive muscle cars, they’re fun. Even if they aren’t better for actual use than more typical options.
 
I'd bet a milsurp fmj would be more effective on North American Game than the typical hard, round nosed "Dangerous Game" bullet for a 40+ cal.
 
Northern Shooter said:
Just for the sake of discussion regarding these big bore/dangerous game cartridges.

At which point would you draw the line for a cartridge being "too much" for the largest of our North American game? I'm thinking Brown Bear, Moose and Bison. Of the three I'm guessing the Bison have the most body mass and would present the least likely of the trio for a complete pass through.

It sounds like many here have hunted NA game with their 9.62's, 375's, 416's and 458s so I'm willing to argue that all of those are "reasonable" application albeit on the top end for our game species.

What about the really big stuff larger than the 458's? Too excessive? too exotic? too much energy and recoil?

Anyone ever taken big game with a 500 NE? 500 Jeffery? 505 Gibbs? how did that turn out?

Edit: I see that Ardent had chimed in about some of these above, has anyone else had experience with them?
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Yes bison are big!
But there is a physical difference between the two species. The plains bison are taller and thinner in body width than the woods bison, so penetration can be different between these two, dependent of course on the caliber and weight of bullet for velocity and retained energy providing penetration and expansion of the particular bullet through these animals from various angles. A large plains bison (2500 lbs) will also be drastically different than a younger bull or cow, and get different results too.
I have had 300 Win Mag 180 gr bullets fully penetrate where others have not, dependent upon angle and bone encountered (shoulder or just rib, and just between ribs) during penetrations. Same for 338 Win Mag 210 gr bullets and 376 Steyr 260 gr AccuBonds.
I look forward to results with my 9.3x62 and 250 gr AccuBonds.
 
This might fit in here somewhere. If you’re going to take the handicap of using what is basically an elephant cartridge on medium sized game, why not go for the whole experience and go with iron sights as well? Using my four five eight for example my front bead covers 8 inches at 100 yards. Thats going to vary wth the bead size, barrel length and the individual shooter but isn’t far off normal. If I sight it in so the bullets impact exactly at the top of the bead at 100 yards its a pretty good deal. If you want a precise shot at the range you’re probably going to shoot at use the top of the bead, though it isn’t make much difference. If something is close enough to stomp you it won’t make a dimes worth of difference if you use the center of the bead or not, and at 200 the bead is covering 16 inches and the bullet will be dropping right back into the middle of it. You can push it a little farther where its hitting toward the bottom of the bead. If the bead covers the deer its probably tme to think about quitting. Who needs rangefinders. ;)
 
Dogleg said:
This might fit in here somewhere. If you’re going to take the handicap of using what is basically an elephant cartridge on medium sized game, why not go for the whole experience and go with iron sights as well? Using my four five eight for example my front bead covers 8 inches at 100 yards. Thats going to vary wth the bead size, barrel length and the individual shooter but isn’t far off normal. If I sight it in so the bullets impact exactly at the top of the bead at 100 yards its a pretty good deal. If you want a precise shot at the range you’re probably going to shoot at use the top of the bead, though it isn’t make much difference. If something is close enough to stomp you it won’t make a dimes worth of difference if you use the center of the bead or not, and at 200 the bead is covering 16 inches and the bullet will be dropping right back into the middle of it. You can push it a little farther where its hitting toward the bottom of the bead. If the bead covers the deer its probably tme to think about quitting. Who needs rangefinders. ;)
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I've only shot both my 375 and 458 with irons, I thought thats how these were meant to be used? Also i'm still vary of scoping myself with the 458 haha.

I'm not taking any shots passed 100m with irons anyway and hunting moose so I have a slightly larger target. Might scope the 375 one day to take advantage of it's longer range ballistics, we'll see.
 
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