Hunting with a 45-70

[elKrusto]

So, I am thinking about hunting with a Marlin 1895 trapper in 45-70. It has the 16.1 inch barrel.
Animals hunted would be black bear mainly, and possibly white tail deer.
If the rifle was accurate with the chosen ammo, I am wondering what the REAL WORLD range would be for proper bullet expansion/remaining energy.
Ammo choices are Hornady Leverevolution 250 grain monoflex, and Federal Hammer down 300 grain.
In the past I have had two different 1895 guide guns with the ported barrels, and they were very accurate. I did notice that the bullets dropped pretty fast after about 100 yards. At that time I was just shooting Remington 405 grain and Winchester 300 grain factory ammo.
Now with the improved ammunition described above, and a Leupold 1.5-5x20 with the CDS-ZL dial, what would be an ethical maximum range of that rifle?

 

[brybenn]

Records have it that the great buffalo hunters shot and killed bison well passed 400 yards. Killing power is not questioned the momentum of heavy bullets puts holes thru things however I shoot rem 405gr flat nose bullets at 1600fps and I'm still on fur at 150 yards with a rough 30 yard zero. I use a double rifle regulated to 30 yards of which they stack slightly vertical which works out to a zero at 75 yards and a zero at lil over 110 yards for each barrel. I have no concerns of expansion at 150 yards.
After that 150 yards you really need to know your range and bullet drop. The lighter 300gr loads are faster but still as aerodynamic as a brick. That said I think 150 yards is still an ethical shot.
With the 4570 paper ballistics really don't match the real world performance. A 22250 can have as much energy downrange as a 4570 but that big old 458 diameter bullet will smash thru thick hide and bone whereas a 22250 won't
I haven't played with the 250gr monoflex yet but in the marlin you can up the pressures and the 4570 is a great bear cartridge inside 100 yards and still works well if you know the trajectory to 200 yards

 

[remington jim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEvPtQn0Src

I loaded mine up to 2200 fps out of my 95 G ! They sure do penetrate and expand too - Excellent BULLET - much BETTER then the 325 FTX cup and core . RJ

Sight in 3 + at 100 and will be a wee bit low 200

 

[zuke]

Even if the bullets don't expand much, your still going to make about a 1/2 inch hole in them. Enough for a good blood trail

 

[fingers284]

I have killed several deer with the 45-70 using 350-450 gr slugs , from 50 yrds out to 245 yrds and have yet to rcover a slug from one, pass-thru's every time.
as others have said, expansion is unimportant ...45-70 starts out the same size as an expanded 30 cal.
The other thing worth mentioning is that non of my slugs are pushed faster than 1400 fps and every deer fell within 4 jumps of where they were hit.

 

[chasseur]

I have hunted with the 45/70 since I was 16 and in all the deer I shot it none ever required a second shot.That was with using for most part the standard factory 405 round loaded for trapdoor and other antique gun levels

 

[a j cave]

All my shots have been sub 200. Great fun though. Using 3031 and a cast 405 at 1700 fps it is very accurate.

 

[Mr.Rigpig]

Ethical distance? Thats up to the shooter. Load a 400ish grain hardcast and if you can hit it where you're supposed to, you can kill it.
Don't let the numbers on paper fool ya.

 

[stuckon308]

I prefer my shots to be under 200 yards but I'm fairly accurate up to 300. It should easily kill most things at that distance.

 

[emerson]

If you know your drops/DOPE at various ranges and use an FFP optic and rangefinder, the cartridge will effectively take game as far as you can shoot it accurately.

 

[John Y Cannuck]

With the 45-70, it's all about trajectory. If you can hit it in the right place pretty much regardless of range it will die. Bullet expansion with the 45-70 doesn't matter much.

Deer and bear I have shot with hard cast (effectively a solid) died quickly, with a good blood trail.

 

[chasseur]

I shot this deer with a Uberti 76 carbine in 45/60 ,60 gr black powder load ,300 gr soft lead bullet at 80 yards with one shot so a 45/70 with modern loads will definitely do the job you want

 

[brybenn]

For a good read try the sandy hook rifle trials of the 4570 back in the 1800s. They shot out to well passed 2km

 

[elKrusto]

I appreciate all the responses. My concern was indeed bullet expansion at the reduced velocities past 100 yards. If expansion isn't my number one concern, and I learn the trajectory, I may just consider using it out to 200 yards.

 

[cjdawe]

I've never shot much past 100 yards with mine,all on moose my favorite is the woodliegh 400 @2000 usually find a good mushroomed bullet somewhere in it ,works great

 

[iron cat]

I appreciate all the responses. My concern was indeed bullet expansion at the reduced velocities past 100 yards. If expansion isn't my number one concern, and I learn the trajectory, I may just consider using it out to 200 yards.

I have a friend who used his Baikal 45/70 double on a couple of moose, one was past 225 yards . It dropped very fast!
Cat

 

[Northern Shooter]

I've taken White tail, black bear and moose with my Marlin 1895 GBL from 10-185 meters. For the longer shots you really can't beat the Hornady LeveRevolution 325's. Sight in at 100 and you're 10.9" low at 200m.

I wouldn't personally shoot at anything larger than deer sized game with the 250 grainers as they have a rather low sectional density of only .170. They also drop more at 200 than the 325s do.

 

[boxhitch]

I appreciate all the responses. My concern was indeed bullet expansion at the reduced velocities past 100 yards. If expansion isn't my number one concern, and I learn the trajectory, I may just consider using it out to 200 yards.

Did you buy something new? or older construction?
45/70 are fun to shoot, busting wood blocks can be dynamic
What loads have you used?

 

[4fifty8]

Hunting in timber close range .45-70 Marlin works pretty good for me on Moose with Hornady 350gr RN handloads. Now got 400gr Barnes Buster handloads for maximum penetration. Really like .45-70 Marlin depends where I'm hunting got other rifles better suited for long range say above treeline.

 

[hoytcanon]

No reason why you can't effectively shoot a scoped lever action .45/70 out to 200 yards, assuming you range properly. I would prefer 300 and 350 grain bullets for that than the 250 Mono-Flex... Nosler is making a 300 grain Ballistic Tip for the SOCOM now that I am testing in a .458 Win Mag with filler loads... will give them a go on bears this spring.