Hunting with ELD Ms

156821

156821

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After following and seeing some results from rokslide and recently on here I thought I would give them a try while deer hunting last fall. I took 1 whitetail and 3 blacktails in total. All 30-06 178 eldm at 2750fps
1 at 15 yards
2 at 100 yards
1 at 200 yards
The wounds were about the size of a softball exit hole and all were lights out where they stood. Killed really well…..
However here is what nobody talks about on those threads. The photo is about the 5th or 6th time I have pulled metal out of my mouth since last season. So if anyone was on the fence about trying them here is some lead for thought. Back to Barnes or bonded bullets for this guy.
 

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Well they are a frangible bullet, you have to expect some lead.
You could of course downsize a bit, say to .224 diameter, and launch them into animals.
You'd certainly have less/smaller fragments
 
While those definitely work, and work well, most fellows using match bullets are using smaller diameter/weight pills in a lighter chambered rifle over lighter diameter/weight bullets that they'd use in their standard 308/30-06 hunting rifles. The added destruction of tissue isn't needed with 30 cal 2700 + fps muzzle energy cartridges.

They kill well. Perhaps too well. But the whole point of the Rokslide thread was to make people understand that 70+gr 223 caliber match rounds can kill as well as 180ish grain bonded 30-06. Sometimes better.
 
156821 said:
After following and seeing some results from rokslide and recently on here I thought I would give them a try while deer hunting last fall. I took 1 whitetail and 3 blacktails in total. All 30-06 178 eldm at 2750fps
1 at 15 yards
2 at 100 yards
1 at 200 yards
The wounds were about the size of a softball exit hole and all were lights out where they stood. Killed really well…..
However here is what nobody talks about on those threads. The photo is about the 5th or 6th time I have pulled metal out of my mouth since last season. So if anyone was on the fence about trying them here is some lead for thought. Back to Barnes or bonded bullets for this guy.
Click to expand...
eld-x is what you need for tissue, eld-m is for paper and steel
 
This is why so much work and development goes into designing a proper bonded hunting bullet which will punch straight through, expand well and retain most of its initial weight at most common impact velocities.

At close range where velocity is high match bullets will often yaw and grenade into fragments frequently lacking enough penetration to punch straight through especially if bone is encountered. Jacket and core separation also is common with bullet fragments going everywhere you don't anticipate.

At distance where velocity is reduced match bullets will often punch through with a bullet diameter in and out. Not much of a wound channel.

Match ammo is for accuracy on paper not hunting despite what some might think. I'd rather settle for slightly less accuracy and a bullet that will do a job with good terminal performance.
 
ELDX don’t hold together either. Shot a mule buck at 760 yards with my 300wm with 200gr eldx and even at that range the bullet disintegrated. Same gun same bullet last year shot a large black bear in the spine. Same deal the bullet didn’t go all the way through and was in pieces. Shot a little bull moose with a 145gr eldx out of my 270wsm. Moose was quarting away and shot it behind the shoulder. It blew up on the ribs and had shrapnel everywhere in the chest cavity.

For big game I’m only using Swift a frames from now on.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Out of curiosity, how many folks have actually used the ELD m, that are commenting here that it shouldn’t be used?
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I suspect very few. I put a few 140eldm that are loaded for my bench gun thru a hunting rifle yesterday for the heck of it. They shot so very well.

The 143 eldx average .75 - 1 moa (only verified to 300yd) out of that gun but the 140s all want to touch each other on target.

Don't NEED that type of grouping for hunting at all but once a guy sees one ragged hole...

I was out messing with the 130cx and superformance to see what's real and what isn't in the world of hornadys velocity numbers. Heard down to 2000fps they're a good bullet. Hornadys book max gave me 2850 out of a 22" tube, no pressure.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Out of curiosity, how many folks have actually used the ELD m, that are commenting here that it shouldn’t be used?
Click to expand...
Have you found this issue of metal fragments to be par for the course using these type of bullets in smaller cartridges? It was my first year trying them. Accuracy was was great. Transfering damage to the game was great too. Finding that much lead was not very great.
 
Think very heavy for caliber and moderate velcocity chamberings for ELDs. Also, the name may be the same, but not all sizes/weights perform the same IME.
 
KodiakHntr said:
Out of curiosity, how many folks have actually used the ELD m, that are commenting here that it shouldn’t be used?
Click to expand...
It's Hornadys match bullet designed for matches as per their product description. It's a cup and core design with a thinner uniformly designed jacket.
You don't have to actually try everything out to realize that it's probably not a great idea.

The hunting bullet ELD-X has a thicker jacket and is supposed to hold together better and still offer match grade accuracy but many hunters who have tried them suggest otherwise.

The growing popularity of "Long Range Hunting" has spurred interest in the development of tweaking what were formerly match bullets into bullet designs that will be suitable for hunting. IMHO they still have a long way to go.
 
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156821 said:
Have you found this issue of metal fragments to be par for the course using these type of bullets in smaller cartridges? It was my first year trying them. Accuracy was was great. Transfering damage to the game was great too. Finding that much lead was not very great.
Click to expand...
I haven't found that issue personally, but I typically trim off bloodshot and damaged meat fairly thoroughly.

Battlerifleelitist said:
ELD-X is a compromise for long range hunting, pretty "soft" bullets.
ELD-M is not suitable for hunting, of course you can do it.
Trophy bonded tipped, or any bonded core bullet at the very least, if not an all copper monolithic

There is no safe amount of lead in your diet.
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Humans don't have gizzards. No studies have conclusively proven that lead from bullets enters the bloodstream in humans as far as I'm aware at this point.

ELD x seem to be behave in a more brittle fashion than ELD m's. The ELD m flat out murders animals with major in cavity organ damage and breaks big bones.
Stuff shot with bullets on the softer side, long for caliber with a long frangible nose section to expand and a long shank to drive penetration kills stuff faster than harder bullets like mono's. Potentially finding a piece of lead in a steak or burger is an acceptable tradeoff for me.

Boltgun said:
just parroting what the ballistician who designed the bullet says publically.
Click to expand...

So that is a no, you haven't used them?
I talked to Hornady about my successful use of the ELD m on big game from a 22 centerfire, and the response was "You shouldn't use the m version, you should be using the x." When pressed on the 'why' of it, the only only answer that he could give was "well, we make the x as a hunting bullet. The m is a match bullet."


PSE said:
It's Hornadys match bullet designed for matches as per their product description. It's a cup and core design with a thinner uniformly designed jacket.
You don't have to actually try everything out to realize that it's probably not a great idea.

The hunting bullet ELD-X has a thicker jacket and is supposed to hold together better and still offer match grade accuracy but many hunters who have tried them suggest otherwise.
Click to expand...

So all the folks who have tried it, such as myself, and found the ELD m to be a very consistent bullet in it's on game behavior and predictable nature, should change up to the ELD x (which has been shown by a very significant number of hunters to be unpredictable in how it behaves when hitting game animals) because the company that markets the bullets says that people shouldn't use the bullet that works, but instead use the one that is almost twice the price but says "hunting" on the box.

Don't use the bullet that they interestingly enough load in their TAP law enforcement lineup, which is used to hunt stuff that shoots back. Got it.
 
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Two entirely different applications. You want explosive fragmentation in the stuff that shoots back. Game animals that you are trying to harvest meat from - not so much.
 
So you haven't used them then?
By all means, use what makes you feel the best, because I know that is what I do. I use the bullets that give me the most consistent results on game.
What I don't do though, is offer up an opinion on a bullet when I haven't used it myself.

Personally, I want animals dead as soon as possible when I shoot them, and if that means I trim off a couple of pounds of meat, then so be it. When I was a died in the wool mono user, I found that shooting for shoulders gave me the most consistent results, and reduced the amount of ground they covered after being shot. Using the 162, 105, and 75 gr Amax's and 88 ELD m's with the same placement as mono's significantly and consistently has reduced the distance travelled by animals after the shot, and does the same or more damage than I what I was seeing with 150 TTSX, 140 GMX, 168/180/200 TSX's.
And nothing is blinking or breathing when I walk up to it after it gets an Amax or ELD m, and that is important to me when it comes to meat quality on the table. Meat quality is the number one priority for me. Period.

Like I said though, use the bullet that makes you happy and gives you the results you are looking for. Everyone's journey to find the right one is different. Use what makes you happy.
 
personal choice,

the argument is do you want some meat to package all the time and walk right up to dead critters almost every time? or do you like to trail animals and don't mind them going down over the backside of the ridge out of site 100 or so yards just so you can maybe eat to the hole if you find them?

which method will wrap more meat over the long term? ;)

I laugh at the 'this is not a hunting bullet' type comments...for any bullet type that doesn't fit the old dogma that you need to see pretty mushroom and high weight retention. Ignoring the mountains of evidence by actual users now a button click away and understanding we shoot into pumping systems, not cns, and the best way to close the gap on shooting pumping systems for speed to death vs cns instant...is to do maximum damage over the right distance inside the pumping systems.

The eld-m is far more 'hunting' bullet than about anything else. The 'm' stands for murder. ;)

If you have not used them, don't bother commenting.

As for OP, just back off the powder capacity for what you're doing, you still get amazing drt performance but less damage when you run eld-m at more moderate velocities. A 6.5 Grendel with 123's has been pretty good but I really like them when impacting from 2500-1700 fps, consisted drt performance, penetrations and damage levels that are impressive. Recovered a 168 eldm (308win launching 2592 fps) on a black bear finisher quartering away through the middle that was still 90 grains or 55% retained weight and closer to 1" diameter pancake and that was 2560 fps impact. Got another recovered this spring from another bear same angle and under hide at 225 yards or 2256 fps impact and it was 116.8 gr and 69.5% retained, easy 3/4"+ pancake with bit more tail left, drt. Usually don't recover them on broadside stuff, needs to be quartering to have a chance at any distance. But exits aren't the goal, internal damage is, exits just mean some wasted work happened outside the animal lol. Blowing outward into pumping systems is the goal, bonded and mono's do a sh1t job at that and generally you get far more runners than drt's. Gamble away but don't knock it until you've tried it. I don't want to see high weight retention lol. I want to walk right up to them after I shoot them, and the eld-m is the most reliable for that I've tried so far, didn't take long to move on from accubonds once I actually put them to the test on a decent enough sample size of critters.
 
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